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Question: pro death penalty  (Voting closed: February 19, 2004, 02:39:53 AM)
yes - 8 (36.4%)
no - 14 (63.6%)
Total Voters: 22

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Author Topic: death penalty  (Read 61976 times)
Rokkuman
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2004, 07:36:19 PM »

This is why I hate the fact that I live in America. I have to put up with other countries referring to us as "you guys", even though the smarter percentage of the country is sick of the government as well. I know people don't really mean everyone in particular, but when it's generalised that way in a sentence, it's annoying to looks at...
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adosorken
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2004, 08:06:56 PM »

I dislike the word "Americans". Foreigners: GET IT RIGHT. We are United Statesians, not Americans.

As far as the death penalty goes, it's lame. Not to mention the fact that it does nothing except cost the taxpayers a tremendous amount of dollars. But 18 or not...if they act as an adult, they can be treated as an adult.

But wow oracle...just when I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, you say such ignorant things. Wow. Sad I don't condemn nosepicking in public, but that doesn't mean I condone it. Things aren't always so black and white. It's not very smart to say such comments in front of so many United Statesians, you know Wink

Agamemnus, take a good look at what they are. Then you will know why. I think it's BS. Public schools are suffering badly, and now GWB and every other religious freak candidate wants to take even MORE money from them. It's horseshyte. Obviously, conformity and forced religion means more to these idiots than our individual freedoms and the power of creative thinking, which is what we need to excel as a country. But noooooooooo...they're insistent on making everyone conform and become drones. The USA will always have a subpar educational system because of this selfish anti-humanitarian act. In a country deemed religiously free, they're going to do everything in their power to take it away from us all. Starting with the impressionable youth. It's disgusting. Sad
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barok
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2004, 09:29:00 PM »

oracle: bone up your studies on the subject before you go making those accusations, stereotypes, etc. etc.
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Agamemnus
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2004, 09:40:47 PM »

I think you're being a little hypocritical, adosorken.

I don't think GWB is a religious freak candidate. I also don't understand why you're saying anything about "forced religion" or "conformity"??? I am lost on your line of thinking.

I do know that most parents prefer private or religious schools over public schools for a reason: they're better. And they're not just better because they're "private" schools: cronyism in public schools can be a big waste of money, and that simply doesn't happen in a private school. Besides a lack of cronyism and a lack of a governmental morass, there is usually no difference between a public and private school.

The general point for school vouchers is that it encourages efficiency in the US school system. That can't be a bad thing can it?

It's the parent's tax money anyways.
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2004, 09:52:07 PM »

I don't think that GB saying "God bless America" everywhere and every hour is very polite. Specially when the Sept 11th. Specially when that single phrase, that doesn't mean anything bad, can be so discriminant to muslims the way it is used. There are muslim people in the USA. Lots. And they are as United Statesians (Wink) as GB.
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webberboy
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2004, 09:59:49 PM »

about giving money to the public schools or putting it back into the taxpayers pockets...

I, being from a family of 11 (yes, 11), am fully for money back in taxpayers pockets.  The schools can survive without it.  My family needs the money more than the schools do.  If they have to start charging people money to play sports, then so be it.

about the god bless america thing...

He didn't say which god.  you could interprit it as "'insert gods name here' bless america".
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Rhiannon
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2004, 10:02:40 PM »

Actually, that money for the vouchers is coming from my pocket, therefore, i should have a say what should be done with that money, and i certainly dont want it to be used to send kids to private (mostly christian) schools, when that money can be used to fund public schools. and as for bush, have you followed his brilliant career moves in terms of religion? Basically:
    he has been pushing to allow public funds to go to private religious organizations for "activities that benefit the public". However, these organizations will include their religion in their services, on the taxpayer's dime. Also these organizations would be allowed to discriminate against people who are not of their religion, gays/lesbians, consensual partners, etc, all using federal funds.

    he has been sticking his nose in the marriage laws, pushing for an amendment to the constitution to ban same-sex marriages, a clearly discrimiatory act. On top of that, he has been making campaigns which encourage heterosexual marriages which have religious overtones.


Geez, if that aint pushing religion i dont know what is. I want my tax dollars in public schools and worthy public programs, not in religious activities and schools. If parents want to pay double sending their kids to a private school that is their problem, not mine. Keep my money out of it.

[Edit to avoid double post]
Quote from: "webberboy"
about giving money to the public schools or putting it back into the taxpayers pockets...

I, being from a family of 11 (yes, 11), am fully for money back in taxpayers pockets.  The schools can survive without it.  My family needs the money more than the schools do.  If they have to start charging people money to play sports, then so be it.


Uh.....that's a selfish viewpoint first of all. Secondly, the money isnt going back to you. It's being given out to others to send them to religious and private schools.
Quote from: "webberboy"
about the god bless america thing...

He didn't say which god.  you could interprit it as "'insert gods name here' bless america".

God is the name of the Christian god. Allah is the name of the Muslim god, and the Jewish god's name is unpronouncable out of respect, altho commonly known as Yahweh. Hindus have different gods, Pagans have different gods, Buddists and Shintos have no god. He is specifically referring to the Christian god.
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na_th_an
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2004, 10:07:45 PM »

Wery well said. You always hit in the head of the nail.

Seriously, if I was asked who I would like to be the president of the USA, I would answer Rhiannon. Without a shadow of doubt.
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Agamemnus
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2004, 10:49:03 PM »

I'm not going to respond to all your points, just two:

Quote

Actually, that money for the vouchers is coming from my pocket, therefore, i should have a say what should be done with that money, and i certainly dont want it to be used to send kids to private (mostly christian) schools, when that money can be used to fund public schools.


Sorry, but if you or your children are not in the public school system, that money isn't going to benefit you. Essentially, everyone attending public school is "given" money from the government and then "pays" that back to attend it. If a public school can't perform, it can't perform. You're just going to pour more money into it without giving a lot of poor parents alternatives? It has nothing to do with religious schools. It purely has to do with economics. And economics gives you bajillions of examples in how the private sector can allocate resources more efficiently than one giant irresponsible organization. (ie: the government)

Quote

God is the name of the Christian god. Allah is the name of the Muslim god, and the Jewish god's name is unpronouncable out of respect, altho commonly known as Yahweh. Hindus have different gods, Pagans have different gods, Buddists and Shintos have no god. He is specifically referring to the Christian god.


In English, God is the name of the Jewish god, the Christian god, and basically any god that exists. Sorry.. :|
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Diroga
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2004, 11:05:31 PM »

Does giving schools more money improve them? Money does not make a teacher better. It gives teachers better tools and environments to work in. Tools and environments can go only to a cretin extent. Locally where I live a private Christian school had higher SAT scores than five school public schools. Of those five schools, two schools are considered "preppy". I have been to three of those schools and they are looking good as for the building. They have TV's, computers, projectors and whole wings dedicated to science. At the private school they only have one hall way and no expensive equipment like the public school. Yet they got better score. It could bet just chance or maybe the quality is better. Granted there are many variable is play, but the prominent fact is that public schools do not reward good teachers. There is no incentive for the teachers to do a good job. Also education is monopolistic. All schools offer basically the same thing. If schools offered more money to teachers with better skills then those good teachers would pick the school that paid more. Then the school that offered more money would have better teachers. Parents would see that the school had better teachers; therefore a greater potential for their kids to get a better education. So kids stop going to the schools with the lesser quality of teachers, which results in the schools loosing money. The schools need money to exist so they must start competing by offering more money to better teachers so that better teachers will go to their school which will attract more paying parents to send their kids their. Schools that pay more to teacher that have better teaching skills than other teachers create incentives for teachers to better their skills. If teachers do not better their skills then they are faced with the option of getting a lower paying teaching job or find a different field.

Please productively criticize me. I would like to know the errors in my reasoning.
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Zack
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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2004, 11:08:41 PM »

God is not the name of the Jewish God - we have lost any capability of pronouncing the name, over the generations, but we refer to it as Ad-nay, and replace the "-" with an "o".
God is the English word for a divine being. So I believe it can be applied to Muslims, Jews, and Christians. With other religions which put their faith in several gods - Pagans, Hindus - no. God isn't an appropriate term.
Btw Rhia, I have never seen any place where anyone (Jewish or not) says "Yahweh". Here's a quick explanation...
Hebrew has an alphabet. Aleph, Beyt, Gimel, Heyh...See? Aleph-beyt. Alphabet. (Hebrew to greek to English, I believe). Anyway, there are also vowels. They are dots and lines place around the letters to accent them. A Segol (three dots, like an triangle pointing down) under a letter tells you to pronounce "Eh" after you pronounce the letter. Note that vowels are used usually only for beginners, because once you learn Hebrew well, you can tell how the word sounds from the context.
Jews have lost the proper vowels to pronounce the name of their god. The letters are Yud Heyh Vav Heyh (English equivalent YHVH). But we don't know what vowels are there. So we now say "Ad-nay", as stated above, which can be translated as many things, but usually as Sir or Master (in a sense of respect, not a "slave-master" type of context).
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Rhiannon
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« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2004, 11:16:18 PM »

Yahweh (or Jehovah) is the name that Christians use. In politically correct sites that give info about Judaism, they use the term "G-d"
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adosorken
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« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2004, 11:17:23 PM »

Most strains of Christianity refer to their God as "God".

"Yahweh" is rooted in Judaism, hence why the name was worked into the Christian religion back at the turn of the eras (read: stolen from the Jews). I do not believe that "Yahweh" is a correct translation though. From what I understand, it is a mispronunciation of another word, of which the name eludes me at the moment. Sad
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« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2004, 11:21:35 PM »

Like I've said - the correct pronounciation is unknown.
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adosorken
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« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2004, 11:23:20 PM »

Not really surprising...much has been lost or destroyed over the centuries, especially within the first three centuries of the common era.
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