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Author Topic: QBasic under LINUX?  (Read 6673 times)
toonski84
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2004, 06:06:21 PM »

Dual booting in XP I've heard is pretty easy.  Just make sure you install DOS *first* and XP's setup should handle the rest.
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i]"I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum ... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"[/i] - Dirty Harry
Zack
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2004, 06:07:55 PM »

Uh - XP is already installed.
Isn't it possible just, as Nath said, to pop a DOS boot floppy in?
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na_th_an
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2004, 06:09:44 PM »

You can download a boot diskette from the URL I gave you and use it to boot your computer. But if your hard drive is formatted using NTFS (as opposed to FAT32) you won't be able to access the hard disk.
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toonski84
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2004, 06:11:15 PM »

Well, the problem I've had is getting a EMS and all the nifty parts of dos to work a floppy boot.  The one windows makes can't do it, and the one from win98 can't see my hard drive (can't see nfts formatted, or even fat32 when I tried).  

Does anybody know of that program manager gui that fit on a floppy along with dos?  I'm trying to remember what it was, but it sounded pretty cool.
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i]"I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum ... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"[/i] - Dirty Harry
Zack
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2004, 06:19:43 PM »

Meh, it's NTFS. :evil:
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na_th_an
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2004, 06:23:25 PM »

toonski: When in DOS I use Norton Commander. Not a GUI, but it is really comfy and helps me make my stuff.

Zack: Then forget about the DOS thing and try to have XP as most DOS-compatible as you can Sad
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Sterling Christensen
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2004, 09:19:43 PM »

Wait a second, DosEmu isn't slow at all! The version I use crashes if the program tries to go into a high-res mode, but other than that it's fine. You just have to replace to crappy FreeDOS it comes with with real MS-DOS.
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Rhiannon
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2004, 09:27:37 PM »

How does a computer NOT come with a floppy drive? that's demented.  :evil:
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Plasma
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2004, 09:35:42 PM »

Er, the majority of new computers sold don't have floppy drives...
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Agamemnus
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2004, 09:36:08 PM »

A lot of people think it's a legacy feature and many computer manufacturers are considering dropping them as a standard..
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Diroga
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2004, 10:01:09 PM »

does XP uses any shell's. it doesnt have dos. ...but it still has command.com. i really dont get XP. i'll just make my own OS  Smiley
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Sterling Christensen
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« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2004, 12:30:37 AM »

XP basically emulates DOS. XP isn't a shell, it's a real operating system all by itself.
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adosorken
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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2004, 05:37:08 AM »

Here's the way it was explained to me, and feel free to poke holes coz this may not be 100% accurate:

Windows, regardless of the version, is always a "shell". The older versions used the MSDOS kernel as something of a low-level kernel, but then it installs its own high-level kernel which makes up the Windows OS. Apparently, this is called piggybacking. Windows NT, on the other hand, doesn't use the MSDOS low-level kernel, it uses a different one. Regardless of which one it uses, it's still a piggyback OS. I've talked to people who've run NT4 over MSDOS, so that also confirms it. And since much of NT's codebase hasn't changed since NT4...well, it's easy to figure out. Smiley

As far as MSDOS goes...it's not emulated, it's an actual copy of real MSDOS running inside a thin-layer virtual machine. A virtual machine is not an emulator, it's more of a copy of the hardware you already have. When you emulate hardware, you're using software to "create" hardware that you don't actually have. The COMMAND.COM is, as usual, the command prompt. However, CMD.EXE is the virtual machine program (so I've been told anyways), and executes COMMAND.COM as well as some other dependencies when it starts up. It's a very protected space, that's why you have to manually set up memory for it, and also why sound doesn't work (it requires direct memory access that the VM doesn't want to give access to) (but there's always VDMsound which breaks this rule). Also, as I've said before, since the VM merely copies the hardware, you're not going to get any additional funcionality. As I've illustrated before, the best example of this is with EMS. If your motherboard doesn't support pageframes, no amount of coaxing the VM will make EMS suddenly work.

Some of the information may be a little off, but it's unlikely. As I said, feel free to poke holes. Smiley I'm a 9x freak myself Wink
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toonski84
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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2004, 01:19:27 PM »

CMD.exe is just an emulator.

Explorer is the "shell", and you can actually change it out for other GUIs if you wish.

As for the piggybacking thing, those are called bootstraps, hence where "boot up" comes from.  The word comes from old punchcard programs that were very simple, but just complex enough to read the operating system off a magnetic drive.  Windows 9x used dos to switch to protected mode, and then load Windows, so if Windows farked up you could still get into dos.  Windows ME had dos skip real mode and load directly into protected mode, which is why it was such a pain in the ass to get dos mode on that OS.  Windows NT was made long before 9x, just to be a dosless version of Windows that some guy thought would free up a bunch of limitations, which eventually turned into XP.

Now,  9x and XP are still self contained OSs, these bootstrap programs just load them into memory.  That fact that DOS was loaded on 9x did let you use its API and therefore run programs on it, though.
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i]"I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum ... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"[/i] - Dirty Harry
LooseCaboose
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« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2004, 10:21:55 PM »

Quote from: "adosorken"

Windows NT, on the other hand, doesn't use the MSDOS low-level kernel, it uses a different one. Regardless of which one it uses, it's still a piggyback OS. I've talked to people who've run NT4 over MSDOS, so that also confirms it. And since much of NT's codebase hasn't changed since NT4...well, it's easy to figure out.


Details of how the Dos/Win9x boot proccess works can be found here: http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/dos-windows-boot-process.html.

Windows NT does not use piggybacking and does not run "on top" of Dos. Msdos offers no memory protection, which allows its kernel to be overwritten, this is how the Loadlin bootloader allows Linux to be loaded over top of Dos, a similar approach could be used for WinNT, but it isn't running "on top" of Dos, it is overwritting it.
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