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Author Topic: Easter Sunday computation  (Read 20643 times)
na_th_an
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« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2003, 08:58:51 PM »

Hmmm... Being atheist is the same as having a belief. You can't demonstrate god's existence, say the atheists. But you can't demonstrate his non existence, either. What's the point?
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toonski84
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« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2003, 09:33:06 PM »

i gotta side with nate here.  to believe you know what's outside the box is a religion any way you put it.
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Moneo
Na_th_an
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« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2003, 02:31:28 PM »

I read an article yesterday that said that some banking association of the European Community is pushing to standardize the computation of the Easter date. This is because different regions and countries of the Community, although Christian, now have different dates for Easter. This causes banking problems because some banks are closed Holy Thursday and Friday, while others are open, and vice versa for different Easter dates.

If this standardization comes about, all the algorithms, which don't coincide with the new standard, that have been developed in the last 500 years for Western and Eastern Christian Churches, will become obsolete, along with the computer programs that use them. What a mess! Perhaps then we will have several Easter dates, one for the European Community, and the same two as today (Western and Eastern) for the rest of the non-European Christian world.

What do you think?
Please don't answer stuff like "I'm an athiest, so I don't care".
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toonski84
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« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2003, 03:19:48 PM »

Being the first ones to celebrate it, i'd go with the algorithm the Roman Catholic church uses.  If not, standardize the sunday after passover (makes enough sense, right?).
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Na_th_an
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« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2003, 05:53:38 PM »

I agree with you. The original Holy Week and Easter occurred during Passover. If there is going to be a new standard, then Easter and Passover should be made to coincide.
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Ninkazu
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« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2003, 06:51:20 PM »

Quote from: "na_th_an"
Hmmm... Being atheist is the same as having a belief. You can't demonstrate god's existence, say the atheists. But you can't demonstrate his non existence, either. What's the point?


True, many atheists believe there is no god or that any religion is right. But, to define atheism, it is purely the absense of theism (religion) therefore "atheism". Now, I have a strong idea towards that fact there is no god, but I still hold true that having a belief is a bad thing. An idea can be changed easier than a belief.

Now then, to the matter of "prove my god doesn't exist." The thing is, I don't have to. If I had to prove every god that people may believe in doesn't exist, I'd be wasting my life. Say for instance I pray to the food god, Masticatibum, for all my meals to be delicious and hearty. Say I explain my beliefs to someone like you. Do you instantly believe in this new god, or do you think it ludicrous? I don't care if you say "whatever you believe is none of my business" but tell me... do you think it ludicrous? Now suppose we were being completely honest with each other and you told me such a belief was ludicrous. Now, I return with "Prove he doesn't exist." Can you? No. Is there a real reason to? Not unless you want to save this person from total ignorance.

Now I get to my next point, what is all this "saving" crap I always hear from Christians? Why must you "save" my "soul"? I somewhat feel the same way about you, only I wish to save you from crazy beliefs of a man in the clouds and for you to think for yourself and live by no boundaries, which the Christians mean to "save" you by making you live your life by the teachings of a 2000-year-old book written by people with no science or anything of the sort... just followers of a guy with ideas about how life should be.

The one thing that makes Jesus different from Buddha and Muhammad is that Jesus called himself the "son of god" and even "god" himself. Um.... no... no, not really. The Bible was actually mistranslated from "young woman Mary" to "virgin Mary" and thus comes all that bull crap. Also, have you noticed that all the old relgions (Christianity, Islam, Mormonism) are "started" by the "angel" Gabriel? Who's got it right? And who are you to say who's wrong?

The point is, none of them are right, although they may have the basic ideas toward compassion and such, but of course EVERYONE WENT TOO FAR. There's actually a godhatesfags.com, did you know that? Just because some guy writing for the Bible had a grudge against homosexuals, he decided to put it in as "God's word". You may think, "oh, but it IS God's word!" Hmmmm, nope, would you think your god would also compare human penises to that of a donkey's in pornographic nature? No, the authors of the Bible are just sheep fuck ers.

Now on into Buddha. Buddha didn't call himself God, nor a messenger of God, or any other bull crap like that. He meditated for weeks at a time, and when he knew he was close to enlightenment, he meditated in the forest under a bodi tree (or something like that). He meditates for weeks on end and became enlightened. What is enlightenment? Some people think Buddhists are arrogant for saying that they've been enlightened. After all, it does seem strange that you are giving yourself the knowledge instead of being taught it. The fact is, if you're taught something by someone else, you haven't learned it. You have just memorized their bit of knowledge. As Buddha once said, "If you must ask a question, you will never know the answer."

Am I a Buddhist? No. Do I follow some of his teachings? It depends. If you think following a certain lifestyle similar to one taught of Buddha is living the teachings of Buddha itself (yes, ITself), then yes, you could even say that about Christianity in some parts.

Christianity has the basic morals, and then the strange morals, and then the killing and torturing and slaughter of infants... morals.
Buddhism has basically the same basic morals, then it teaches that suffering comes from desire, and then there are the fundamentalist Buddhists (whom aren't many. The only ones I know of are the ones who killed the Christians in... Sri Lanke was it? Can't remember).

Really, humans know for themselves the basic morals, but do tend to break them because of greed and lust. The others were created by the human mind to have more control over the people whom believed in its teachings.

Christianity has actually changed the definition of hell in the past few years. No longer is it boiling brimstone and rain of fire, but merely the "absence of God". Wow... it seems they want to look better on the popularity charts, but the thing is, their bible says that hell is boiling brimstone and all that, so why change it? Because the bible is actually a book of horror stories with supposed "morals" to them, but with the offspring of the baby boomers being such pussies, they've had to "tone it down".
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na_th_an
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« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2003, 07:42:48 PM »

Nice thoughts Smiley I love this.

Quote from: "Ninkazu"
True, many atheists believe there is no god or that any religion is right. But, to define atheism, it is purely the absense of theism (religion) therefore "atheism". Now, I have a strong idea towards that fact there is no god, but I still hold true that having a belief is a bad thing. An idea can be changed easier than a belief.


That makes agnosticism different from atheism. Your definition is agnostic, not atheist. AFAIK, atheists deny god's existence. That's stupid, IMHO (but respectable, please, don't misunderstand me). Agnostics just say that they have no prove. Both don't believe in God, but Agnostics give room for doubt. That is more intelligent, IMHO.

Quote
Now then, to the matter of "prove my god doesn't exist." The thing is, I don't have to.


Of course you don't have to, but if you wanna make yourself some credit, you should back your words with facts. (Replace "you" with whatever Wink ). Atheists say something really hard, like "God doesn't exist", but they can't "back" it.

Quote
I don't care if you say "whatever you believe is none of my business" but tell me... do you think it ludicrous?


Of course I think it is ludicrous, but I would respect your beliefs. I can't disprove its existence, either. I wouldn't believe in it, also Wink

Quote
Now I get to my next point, what is all this "saving" crap I always hear from Christians? Why must you "save" my "soul"? I somewhat feel the same way about you, only I wish to save you from crazy beliefs of a man in the clouds and for you to think for yourself and live by no boundaries, which the Christians mean to "save" you by making you live your life by the teachings of a 2000-year-old book written by people with no science or anything of the sort... just followers of a guy with ideas about how life should be.


I'm with you in this points. I don't wanna be saved by anyone. IMHO, you can be a Christian without believe in God. If you just follow what Jesus said, you'll be a follower, so you'll be a christian. And I think that Jesus teachings were really cool. Forget all those miracles and epic stuff, and all those misinterpretations, and only think in the main message: "Respect. Give. Love. Coexist." ... Is that any bad?

Quote
[...] Also, have you noticed that all the old relgions (Christianity, Islam, Mormonism) are "started" by the "angel" Gabriel? Who's got it right? And who are you to say who's wrong?


None of them are wrong. Many muslims cellebrate Christmas. Mr. Arafat does, for example. Islam does not deny Christianism. Fights between different religions don't come from the religious matters themselves. Think about it: always money, power and envy were involved. All those "holy wars" were just for money and lands, not for God. God was just an excuse. It is the evil in humanity which caused them, not the religions.

Quote
The point is, none of them are right, although they may have the basic ideas toward compassion and such, but of course EVERYONE WENT TOO FAR. There's actually a godhatesfags.com, did you know that? Just because some guy writing for the Bible had a grudge against homosexuals, he decided to put it in as "God's word". You may think, "oh, but it IS God's word!" Hmmmm, nope, would you think your god would also compare human penises to that of a donkey's in pornographic nature? No, the authors of the Bible are just sheep f**k ers.


The bible was written 3000 years ago, even more. It is normal that it says what it says. What isn't normal is that their followers still apply those outdated teachings as they were the main Truth. I'm with you in this one.

Quote
Now on into Buddha.[...]

Am I a Buddhist? No. Do I follow some of his teachings? It depends. If you think following a certain lifestyle similar to one taught of Buddha is living the teachings of Buddha itself (yes, ITself), then yes, you could even say that about Christianity in some parts.


Buddhism is more a way of life to me. I concur with many of its teachings. Also, I'd call Buddha a HE, not an IT, 'cause he actually existed and he was a man :Huh:

Quote
Really, humans know for themselves the basic morals, but do tend to break them because of greed and lust. The others were created by the human mind to have more control over the people whom believed in its teachings.


Think about the time when relligions were created (yes, "created" -> may God exist or don't exist, but relligions are a man's act). It all makes sense. It's easier to convince people not to do something if you teach them that it is a SIN.

Quote
Christianity has actually changed the definition of hell in the past few years. No longer is it boiling brimstone and rain of fire, but merely the "absence of God". Wow... it seems they want to look better on the popularity charts, but the thing is, their bible says that hell is boiling brimstone and all that, so why change it? Because the bible is actually a book of horror stories with supposed "morals" to them, but with the offspring of the baby boomers being such pussies, they've had to "tone it down".


LOL... At least they did something intelligent.

Those were my points Wink Nice chat Smiley

I'd end with something: Being respectful is the way to go. If the guy next door believes in the King of Bannana Split that's ok, if he feels better.
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Ninkazu
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« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2003, 08:06:39 PM »

It's really not ok, because then you have more churches opening, tearing down more trees, plowing away more land, taking away more money, all for some old guy to tell weak-minded people NOT to do that. The money that goes into building churches should go to charities. There shouldn't be an intermediary.

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That makes agnosticism different from atheism. Your definition is agnostic, not atheist. AFAIK, atheists deny god's existence.

Agnostic is being open to whatever and not knowing. It really means, to its most basic of meanings "without knowledge" a title given by the Christians to "unbelievers". See why I don't like that title? An atheist, by definition, does not deny god's existance, but does not believe in any religion. Atheism isn't the religion against Christianity, so which "god" do you mean? Thor? Zeus? Pollus Athene? Shiva? Amaterasu?

Quote
Atheists say something really hard, like "God doesn't exist", but they can't "back" it.

Sure, we still don't have the science to disprove it, but yet again, many years ago, people thought matter was constant, not made up of particles called "atoms". Aristotle IMO was just a cloud gazer that people listened to. The same thing I think when I look at the case of Jesus.

Democritus lived during Aristotle's time and gave the theory of atoms to the council (or whatever) and they didn't believe him, because he couldn't prove it at the time. See where I'm getting at? I think history is about to repeat itself, only now we aren't killed for not believing in "the gods" like Socrates was.
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na_th_an
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« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2003, 08:14:22 PM »

Okay.

Just to make it clear:

1. When I say "God" I mean any of those. Wink

2. I am also for charity vs. churches.

3. Jesus was not a cloud gazer. As I told you, all that he said was "love each other". What is wrong with that?

4. Special Relativity does not interfere with believing in god. 60% of Scientists do believe in god.
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Ninkazu
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« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2003, 08:17:19 PM »

Before we continue, I'd like you to read this:
http://www.atheists.org/drive.thru/atheism.html

Also, Jesus was a cloud gazer. He had those ideas, yes, but... how does that not make him a cloud gazer?
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na_th_an
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« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2003, 08:21:31 PM »

Hmm it depends on how you define "cloud gazer". I think that everyone who has the guts to fight the system is respectable, if the system is made up of crap.
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Ninkazu
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« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2003, 08:38:01 PM »

I plan on fighting the system when I become an adult and get my student loans paid ;P

The thing is, I wouldn't respect a guy who called himself god if I were a Jew of the time back then. Now stupid Christians blame the Jews for the murder of their savior... this sounds all too much like black people wanting "reparations".
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toonski84
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« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2003, 08:41:29 PM »

To be frank, would you all please stop arguing?  Do you really expect the other to suddenly pick up on your core beliefs?  And if you do get them to change, what's it matter?  Would the world be a better place?  Please, just stop arguing.  Ninkazu, you don't care.  Nathan, you dont care.  I dont care.  None of 'yall care.  Problem settled.  *goes back to watching the teevee*
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na_th_an
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« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2003, 09:01:33 PM »

C'mon, Toonski, why don't you like arguing? Wink

I was not gonna counter-attack this time. He has his beliefs, I have mine. My last post was only to reply some unclear points (my fault).

Also, I was not arguing to convince someone. I was just giving my point of view Wink
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Ninkazu
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« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2003, 09:18:32 PM »

Hey, I think this "argument" is much cleaner than what appears on neozones Wink
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