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Question: Do I sound over my head.  (Voting closed: January 13, 2003, 02:59:00 AM)
Yes - 4 (100%)
NO - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 4

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Author Topic: How are Cartoons and Animes *produced*  (Read 18313 times)
Rokkuman
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« on: January 13, 2003, 02:59:00 AM »

I may sound way over my head, but I actually am thinking about making some kind of cartoon, or animericanime or something. I can draw pretty good in my opinion, but I would like to know exactly how animes and stuff is produced. As in what hardware and tools and stuff do they use. Your answer would be greatly appreciated.
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na_th_an
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2003, 08:01:23 AM »

You don't know what you are saying. You have to draw 25 frames per second, colour them, give backgrounds and photograph the whole thing. Also, animation is pretty hard itself. Man, I'd begin making something more easy.

You could start making some animation in the PC. I remember an old program called Autodesk Animator which let you make cool FLICs. I also have Deluxe Animation, which is the Deluxe Paint version with animation.

I say this 'cause, to make an animé, the artists have to draw over big sheets of transparent paper, follow colour sheets and then put it over the backgrounds and picture it. Normally, there are principal drawers who draw keyframes and the hard workers just fill in-between. Anyhow, making a simple walking animation accross a room is damn hard.

I suggest you to start from the beginning. I can upload AA or DA somewhere for you to test. Basicly, they are graphics programs (super-featured, not like Paint Wink )where you have many frames and you just press a key to display a frame after another at a rate. Normally you just copy a frame into the following, make the changes, and so forth. I made some animations in the past, let me look for them and maybe I show'em Tongue
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toonski84
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2003, 08:07:09 AM »

it takes somethink like 15 animators working 9 to 5 for a week to produce those animes.  i tried to do a similar thing when i was 14, i drew something like 25 pictures after a few days and got so terribly sick of it i wanted shoot myself (figuratively).  even pixel cutscene animation, like in x-wing or the old scumm games takes an ungodly amount of time for anyone to do by themself.
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i]"I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum ... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"[/i] - Dirty Harry
Rokkuman
Na_th_an
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Posts: 1973



« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2003, 05:59:26 AM »

I know it takes a lot of hard work and stuff. But when I am *ready*, I'd like to know what type of equipment they use.
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na_th_an
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2003, 06:54:17 AM »

Expensive. Very expensive-

You need the machine which takes a single picture of a fixed, backlit surface. It is a big, complex machine and I don't have a clue of how expensive it is Tongue If you have several planes then ... wow man, I once saw one of these machines and I bet that you can't afford it Tongue

Also, film is realy expensive. To positivate 10 minutes of film costs $10,000.

The acetate sheets and the acrylic paints are the cheaper part, but they are really expensive too.
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Hexadecimal Disaster
Been there, done that
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2003, 06:36:18 PM »

Quote from: "Megaman"
I can draw pretty good in my opinion.


Self-confidence, eh? Where we can see your artwork?

Nathan and Toonski are right, but some appreciations about their comments:

- For standard animation (not movies) the frame rate is around 12 or 14 FPS. Yeah, I know that NTSC video system is 29,97 FPS and PAL is about 25 FPS, but note that the real animation -not the parallax effects nor screen pannings- is a lot slower than that. Watch with attention.

- The suggestion Nathan gave you is excellent for non professionals. The computer will help you greatly on making animation. Use and abuse scrollings, zooms and motion tweenings, and you'll end with something similar to these older Captain America cartoons (honestly: awesome). Consider also the Flash format to make animations. And don't forget that when you're using a GIF animator, that's animation too.

- About the real equipment, well, Nathan is right again. A cheaper way it's to make the animation in the computer, and then "export" it to a VCR or other type of recordable media using a Video editor/TV capturer or the TV-out of your graphics card. I've done it with Flash-based animation to a VHS tape, and I can recommend this method as it yields very good results. (for not being a professional animation studio, that's it )
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na_th_an
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2003, 07:09:08 PM »

Oh yeah, I was so dumb - I forgot Flash Tongue It should've been in the top of my head, but let's say that I went back in time 10 years Tongue

Flash is the sollution, Megaman. The best thing you can do is get Flash MX and a stylus (tablet or whatever). You can make great things, 'cause Flash has plenty of easy-to-use effects and you can also add music and sound directly.

Flash can export to AVI, so recording to a video system will be quite easy.
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toonski84
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2003, 09:13:09 PM »

well, dont be all "yay, i'll get flash!" yet.  flash is great for webcartoons (you've probably seen some) but they are pretty primative.  if you're going for something as full-blown as an anime or a tv. series or really anything with a long, drawn out plot i'd recommend comics as a medium of choice.  

but then again i've seen some pretty good flash movies.  if you're really for this thing go for it.
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i]"I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum ... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"[/i] - Dirty Harry
Rokkuman
Na_th_an
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Posts: 1973



« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2003, 09:16:59 PM »

I actually do have some experience with animating. It's only been gif animations though.
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toonski84
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2003, 09:26:19 PM »

may i see these gif animations (not as a critic or a skeptic, but i'm interested in seeing them)

gif animation is slightly different than regular animation.  for one, it's a constant framerate, and you cant do too many cool pixel-saving stuff like scrolling/scaling backgrounds (unless you do it by hand in the images).

also is the matter of animation itself.  can you hold a character (that is, recreate a drawing of the same person from different angles over and over?).  another is, are you aware of certain animation techniques (like the infamous bouncing ball test).  this isnt to say dont do it if you cant but be sure to check them out before you start.
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i]"I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum ... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"[/i] - Dirty Harry
Rokkuman
Na_th_an
*****
Posts: 1973



« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2003, 09:30:53 PM »

Well, I never said gif animations would get you anywhere, I mean, it's a good starting point, but I know I can't say, "Hey, I made a gif animation, I'm gonna go start on my movie!". Flash however, I don't think that's a good place to start either. Flash in my opinion is only good for fancy buttons and ads. I see flash cartoons, yet none of them have the quality of *anything* I have seen on TV. Besides some little silly cartoon shorts that may use it. I will try to find  some animating software though.
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toonski84
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2003, 10:02:12 PM »

well, dont trust web cartoons.  flash does have everything you need (sprite scaling, scrolling backgrounds, and easy-to-access stuff).  and gif files arent horrible either (i remember some japanese guy making full-blown sketch cartoons scenes that were just spectacular, smooth 30fps animation).  all-in-all, flash, being a full-blown scripting language (xiao xiao anyone?), is probably your best choice of action.

speaking of 30fps, what nathan said about 12-14 fps... that's only for lazy animators (like japanimators Cheesy)... but it's probably something you're going to have to do since maintaining 30fps is a pain in the posterior.
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i]"I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum ... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"[/i] - Dirty Harry
Hexadecimal Disaster
Been there, done that
*****
Posts: 1123



« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2003, 12:04:04 AM »

Nooo, even Disney uses less than 30/24 fps in the animation that's not CG or CH like almost all their actual crap. The point is, what you see runs at 30/24, but the actual animation has less frames than that, so when the camera pans or zooms the animation seems fluid, while... I'll insist, watch carefully to get the full idea.

And... only good for buttons and ads? *sheesh* Kids...

http://www.mjau-mjau.com
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Rokkuman
Na_th_an
*****
Posts: 1973



« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2003, 10:39:31 PM »

Well, yeah... I'm aware of how many drawings and stuff it will take. Making stuff takes effort and devotion.

And what's with all the haters up there. Doesn't anyone think I could do it?
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Hexadecimal Disaster
Been there, done that
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Posts: 1123



« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2003, 02:19:20 AM »

Haters? I only see skeptical people.
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