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Author Topic: INP() keyboard handling  (Read 9694 times)
jony_basic
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2005, 03:57:39 PM »

well, I actually started redrawing the sprites about a month ago, I'll post the new screen shots on my site.
And btw, I did read some pixel art tutorials since those screenshots, so I think my sprites look at least a little better.
I did take to thought about the saturation, and I fixed it up a lot, the grass looks smoother and more like grass, instead of just random green pixels.
I also made the walls of the houses into a log cabin style thing instead of just smooth brown paper Wink
up untill just recently I was using Qbasic's predefined palette, so I made my own palette with more of the colors that I need.

But, I must say, graphics is NOT my main goal in this project,
I am more worried about game play and how the player feels while playing in the world.
I believe emotion plays a big role in the actual way people look at the game and wether or not they even care about the story.

Jony_Basic
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axipher
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« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2005, 11:13:29 PM »

Quote from: "na_th_an"
Quote from: "axipher"
The actual game graphics aren't bad for DOS


Pixel art quality is not limited by the operating system, that statement makes absolutely no sense.

IMHO, the main issue with those graphics is that they are oversaturated and there's too much contrast on backgrounds. Golden rules are always try to use less saturated tones and use less contrast in the backgrounds than in the sprites, for clarity.

Look at the professionals' work:



Left being the original picture, right being an oversaturated version. Which one looks better? The left one, colours are less saturated (easier on the eyes) and there's less contrast in the background and more definition in the sprites.


Point taken, although I must say using less saturated backrounds and more saturated sprites is a good effect, in screen 31 for example, using the first 16 colors fot sprites mainly and using the other colors which are darker shades for the background works nicely.



Quote from: "jony_basic"
well, I actually started redrawing the sprites about a month ago, I'll post the new screen shots on my site.
And btw, I did read some pixel art tutorials since those screenshots, so I think my sprites look at least a little better.
I did take to thought about the saturation, and I fixed it up a lot, the grass looks smoother and more like grass, instead of just random green pixels.
I also made the walls of the houses into a log cabin style thing instead of just smooth brown paper Wink
up untill just recently I was using Qbasic's predefined palette, so I made my own palette with more of the colors that I need.

But, I must say, graphics is NOT my main goal in this project,
I am more worried about game play and how the player feels while playing in the world.
I believe emotion plays a big role in the actual way people look at the game and wether or not they even care about the story.

Jony_Basic


Me and you would make a great team, I find the graphics can make a game or break a game but I still think gameplay has a big impact and you think the graphics aren't that big of a deal but rather the gameplay is what makes the game.
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jony_basic
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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2005, 03:50:40 AM »

I wouldn't say graphics aren't a big deal, but definatly not as big a deal as some say, just my oppinion of course.
I don't really know what to do, should I tone the vibrance down a little, or should I do some kind of contrast?
I guess it makes sence to make more contrast in the character than in the background sprites.

axipher, I would love be on a team with you.
really, any kind of team is always good, compare and contrast ideas
and the like.
The more the marier.
If you'd like to work on this project with me, or just give suggestions, feel free to tell me so, I'm always hopin' for some help.
also, I always appreciate open critisism rather than flattery and such, so don't worry about makin' me feel bad.
I'm still working on redrawing new sprites in the new palette, but it won't be long 'till I get the new screen shots on my site.

Jony_Basic
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axipher
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« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2005, 10:54:55 AM »

Well let's team up then, I've been working on a sprite drawing program, maybe we can use it in conjunction with your program to allow users to create custom sprites.  you could still have some pre-made sprites and they could be in the game so they wouldn't deleted and then the user could also create their own sprites.
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jony_basic
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2005, 04:18:37 PM »

alright, I'll give you the source for all the stuff where ever you want them sent

sounds like a plan, I too am working on a drawing program, it's win16 qbasic with mouse and saving and loading, screen 13h.
unfortunatley no windows BMP or GIF loading function.
I in fact made my own file type that loads really easy in QB 4.5
It basicly stores the color values sequentialy as they appear in the bitmap, pretty basic.
it will have zoom 100% 200% 400% 800%
free hand pencil drawing, line drawing, circle, square, and flood fill
you'll also be able to open a map file and edit it in real view, able to see what spritees are going where(instead of the average bit mapping by hand)
flood fill is kind of difficult to figure out. :S

I don't know if it's a good idea to let the user create his own sprites.
but if you think so, then I guess it's fine.
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axipher
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2005, 10:18:33 PM »

Well the user sprites could be good, and like I said have them sotred in program too so they are always accessible, oh, and I finished a floodfill option that works perfectly and flawlessy, and fast to, but it's in fb...
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stylin
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2005, 10:51:07 PM »

Quote from: "axipher"
Well let's team up then, I've been working on a sprite drawing program, maybe we can use it in conjunction with your program to allow users to create custom sprites.  you could still have some pre-made sprites and they could be in the game so they wouldn't deleted and then the user could also create their own sprites.

A better solution would be to emulate games from Doom onward that load graphics (and everything else) from a resource file, and allow modders to override that by providing their own resource file.

Your sprite program is a great learning tool, but - no offense - it's a far cry from MSPaint.
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stylin:
axipher
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2005, 10:56:04 PM »

How are you supposed to learn if you have all this negatice criticism around, the point of the program is baing able to launch the program from inside the actual game or having a stand alone editor to add value to the game and learn valueable skills and gain experience.
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stylin
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« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2005, 11:15:27 PM »

Quote from: "axipher"
How are you supposed to learn if you have all this negatice criticism around, the point of the program is baing able to launch the program from inside the actual game or having a stand alone editor to add value to the game and learn valueable skills and gain experience.

Learn to take constructive criticism as it is - constructive criticism. It's constructive because it's *widely* accepted that hard-coding things in code 1. makes them harder to modify and extend (from a developer's POV) since they're so tightly coupled with existing code and 2. makes them harder to modify and extend (from a modder's POV) for the same reasons.

I'm not (as opposed to many on this forum) trying to negatively criticise you. I told you that your sprite program is a great learning tool, and wish you the best in implementing it. However, you must realise that you can 1. launch MSPaint from inside the actual game and 2. develop more sprites faster (of possibly greater quality) with an already completed and feature-packed graphics program.

If what you want to do is integrate an editor - graphics, scripts, etc. - into your game code, then it's going to take quite a bit more skill in BASIC than what you've shown here on these forums. Again - no offense.

The point: lighten up - try not to take what people say - especially on an internet forum - so personally. I'm all about helping novice programmers, and that's all I'm trying to do. Cheers.
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stylin:
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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2005, 11:17:49 PM »

look, you both have a point

axipher's point is that practice makes perfect

stylin's point is that when you have a fully built car already in your possesion, you don't need to reinvent the wheel
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axipher
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« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2005, 11:42:24 PM »

First off nice new avatar, it's awsome.

Quote from: "Cha0s"
look, you both have a point

axipher's point is that practice makes perfect

stylin's point is that when you have a fully built car already in your possesion, you don't need to reinvent the wheel


Well I don't acre if there already is a program out tehre that I can use, what if I decide to create a new format to save the graphics as, and if I did have a car in my possession, I wouldn't care if it worked or not, I'd want to know how it works, a hockey game isn't a hockey game without watching it, the Maple Leafs canwin a game and not be seen by my, but I'd rather see their game if they win or lose (I'm a leafs fan).  The point is knowing how something works is better then just knowing that it works to me, and what better way to figure it out then trying to reinvent it???
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stylin
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« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2005, 11:57:06 PM »

Re-inventing the wheel is great for learning and horrible for productivity. If you want to make a game, then writing a sprite editor is a waste of time, specifically the time that could be used in figuring out how a game works instead. Nobody writes their own modelling program, they use Maya or 3DSMAX. Why? Because they care about making games, not tools, and they know how to prioritize their time.

Quote
what if I decide to create a new format to save the graphics as

Give me some (preferably valid) reasons why you'd want to do this, as opposed to loading graphics from an already existing format.

Quote
The point is knowing how something works is better then just knowing that it works

Last time I checked this thread was about making a game - and giving the user the opportunity to create their own graphics - not a graphics program. It's great if you want to know how graphics tools work, but it won't help you in making games - at all. The only thing that will help you learn how to make games is by making games - not tools.

For future reference, you might want to clarify what you say, and/or post in a more relevant thread (like your sprite program thread).
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stylin:
axipher
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« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2005, 12:11:33 AM »

Let me ask one question before I turn of my computer, why do you care what I do?  Huh, does me wanting to learn how to make a mini painting program and a game at the same time while still in highschool harm you in anyway and force you to flame me in an uneeded way.  Although I don't care about people's flameful comments, I find yours interestingly based on what you don't know about me.  Just because a therad was started for a certain topic, doesn't mean it must end the same, 90% of topics probably end up far from what they were.  Well goodnight.
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stylin
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« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2005, 12:14:12 AM »

Quote from: "axipher"
Well goodnight.

See ya tomorrow. Smiley
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stylin:
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« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2005, 12:51:53 AM »

Quote from: "axipher"
why do you care what I do?
We don't, so you can stop posting it all over the forum now..
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