Qbasicnews.com

QBasic => QB Discussion & Programming Help => Topic started by: Neo on October 20, 2004, 03:02:34 PM



Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Neo on October 20, 2004, 03:02:34 PM
Hello all :)

Since a very long time, I've had troubles with the mouse in high-res modes. Not only in QB programs using UGL or FLib, but also in commercial high-res games using VESA or similar.

What happens is that the mouse is trapped in a box in the upperleft corner of the screen, something like (0,0)-(100,50). If your mouse can't move out of this box, many games like Ascendancy or the FLib setup program become unrunnable/unplayable.

Is there anything I can do about this? Like a mouse patch for the NTVDM (yes... Win2K), or similar? Anyway, I seem to experience this problem only in Win2K, in WinXP they solved the problem, it seems.

Anyway, it's getting really annoying now...

Any help is appreciated ;)

Neo

P.S. (edit) I also use VDMSound, else I am not able to maximize the window fast enough before the program starts testing for VESA. And also for the cool sound of course ;)


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 21, 2004, 07:45:13 AM
did u try using dosbox? Does it do that in Dos box too? Also, did you apply the latest microsoft patches?


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Neo on October 21, 2004, 08:21:33 AM
I have DOSbox 0.60 and the mouse works fine, although the programs now are unrunnable because they're too slow ;)

What Microsoft patches?


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Neo on October 22, 2004, 03:24:23 AM
Anyone? :(


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Plasma on October 22, 2004, 10:42:24 AM
Never had that problem...


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Neo on October 22, 2004, 02:39:40 PM
Hehe ;) That helps me much :P


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 23, 2004, 11:42:54 AM
Quote from: "Neo"
What Microsoft patches?


how should i know what M$ patch? I dont even run M$ OS =P.


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Neo on October 23, 2004, 11:53:07 AM
That's not what I meant :P I meant what M$ patches? For, I wasn't able to find any... ;)


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 23, 2004, 12:39:53 PM
my question was in general. They find such bugs and then release patches for them. But I dont think they will bother correcting a bug in NTVDM =*(


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Neo on October 23, 2004, 12:42:00 PM
I know :( They really let go of DOS... grrr ;)


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Blitz on October 24, 2004, 12:05:06 AM
yepp, win2k problem. µGL doesn't have that problem.


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 24, 2004, 02:10:10 AM
You actually mean to say that he wont get the problem if he uses uGL? =P


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Neo on October 24, 2004, 07:12:50 AM
Ah, UGL is even worse! ;) The mouse stays in the upperleft corner yes, but it also crashes after doing too much at a time ;)


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: v3cz0r on October 24, 2004, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: "Neo"
Ah, UGL is even worse! ;) The mouse stays in the upperleft corner yes, but it also crashes after doing too much at a time ;)


Then you gotta a really screwed box there ;).. uGL is the only qb lib that actually doesn't use any int services to add mouse support (other than to reset the mouse at init/end and to check for its presence), everything else is done internally, on it's own ISR, there's no polling.

Win2k's NTVDM seems to have a bug when emulating the mouse int services, any DOS app running in high-res and that does not implements its own mouse ISR will have the cursor locked at top-left of screen.

If you had any $dynamic's in your code for sure when using the mouse module it would crash soon or later, but that is shown in the manual.. blame QB for moving it's arrays when garbage-collecting, not us. CS2D uses uGL for everything, including mouse.. ~12000 lines of code and stills running fine.. maybe i'm just lucky? nah..


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Neo on October 24, 2004, 04:51:55 PM
Well, it's not only UGL's mouse module... it's more. I just run one of your examples (e.g. the line-drawing one, or the one with the polygons), and it crashed. Simple as that.

Then I add some sort of delay factor (Vsync, or a For loop), and it works... so I'm quite confused about what's happening here... :P


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: v3cz0r on October 24, 2004, 06:36:17 PM
Quoting yourself at neolib's manual:

Quote
This version, version 1.6 is quite buggy. What the causes of this buggyness are, ... I don't know. I think it's got something to do with memory overlapping because the total library (all 15 modules) are too big for QB to handle :).


It's about 12+ years old compilers running on an badly emulated OS and "accessing" non-backward compatible hardware's, being used by slack coders (including me), do i need to say anything else? :)

If you say your video-card is an ATI or Voodoo, then.. it's well known that both cards have buggy VESA BIOSes, there's nothing we can do about that. uGL only outperforms other DOS real-mode high-res/high-color gfx libs because it uses well known methods (not hacks!) that aren't supported by those cards..


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Neo on October 24, 2004, 06:44:13 PM
Hehe, I think I understand it now :P I guess we experienced the same problems ;)

I have an nVidia video card. :)


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 25, 2004, 09:50:21 AM
When I had SiS 6215C uGL would crash*
When I had SiS 6326 uGL would crash*
When I had Intel onboard gfx uGL would crash*
When I had ATi Radeon 7000 uGL would crash*
When I had NVidia uGL would crash*

I was using Win98 for all cards ;)

*All crashes were with uGL's own examples excuted 'as-is'.


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: v3cz0r on October 25, 2004, 12:18:46 PM
Coming from someone that even got banned  ~1 year ago from QB45's board when started a flame war with Blitz and me because µGL.. and that worships Future lib when even the lib's authors recommend µGL.. i'm not exactly surprised.

I bet µGL32 won't work for you either when it gets released, we will see..


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Neo on October 25, 2004, 12:21:44 PM
UGL32? Cool! New version of UGL? :D


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 26, 2004, 07:42:14 AM
Quote from: "v3cz0r"
Coming from someone that even got banned  ~1 year ago from QB45's board when started a flame war with Blitz and me because µGL.. and that worships Future lib when even the lib's authors recommend µGL.. i'm not exactly surprised.

I bet µGL32 won't work for you either when it gets released, we will see..


haha :rotfl:. Blitz banned me out of his personal interests. And if you remember such arrogant attitudes of the admins @ qb45.com lead to its pathetic downfall :wink:

Let me ask you this question - "How many people will vouch that uGL works 100% on their computers?"

The answer - "Zero!" :rotfl:
( Remember, the authors dont count ;) )

If you show such arrogance with your products then I am sorry but you're product will never be able to flourish. You need to fix issues with it by listening to what the users  have to say, not by denying that there are no issues with your product and its the perfect piece of software! BS. Any attempt to reason with you or blitz has been a waste of my time.

Oh and Allegro will beat the shit out of uGL anyday ;)


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: wildcard on October 26, 2004, 09:14:35 AM
TheBigBasicQ: Not hi-res/SVGA lib is even going to be 100% compatable as not all cards are. UGL has been widely recognised as the best hi-res lib available for QB. Its just not everyone uses hi-res in QB.

Becareful of calling people arrogrant when you can yourself be perceived as being it.

Comparing it to allegro is pointless as I've never seen QB program use it directly.


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: v3cz0r on October 26, 2004, 01:01:17 PM
Quote
Oh and Allegro will beat the @£^$ out of uGL anyday


Heh, how would you know that? You must be a coder/programmer/developer to compare function libraries and i don't remember seeing a single piece of code written by you - i'm sure i'm not the only one here.

If you could take the time it took to post in 1 year and half those 3600+ messages, and actually code something, lets see.. 5 minutes to read the messages and then write a reply.. 18000 minutes, ouch.. say you used those 300 hours to sit down and code.. man, i could have written a 32-bit QB-compatible compiler with that free time ;)


Quote
If you show such arrogance with your products then I am sorry but you're product will never be able to flourish. You need to fix issues with it by listening to what the users have to say, not by denying that there are no issues with your product and its the perfect piece of software! BS. Any attempt to reason with you or blitz has been a waste of my time.


"Product"? What product? uGL is a programming project, not a product. Just to remind you, it's fully open-source, and you, mr. "Linux lover", why didn't you try to help finding the bugs you mentioned (but never showed).. that's the only way any open-source project can get better, with patches sent by users (remember, this is a functions library, not a word processor). Maybe the code was too complex to you? I can understand that..

We never denied anything, the problems with ATI's and Voodoos cards (the video-cards that we really know that have problems because the users reported us exactly what was happening, instead of saying "THIS LIB IS PURE SH*T! F*CK YOU!" forgot the qb45.com's posts eh?), are well known and Blitz even made a compatible test tool, but not many helped running the test and sending the results, you can guess.. http://badlogic.bad-logic.com/index.php?showpage=modes.db


I'm sure you will be the last one replying, as i already lost too much time with this and don't want to beat your ranking in number of posts (again, congrats!). Trying to explain anything related to programming to you is so hard as explaining rocket science to a 8 years old child, i give up. You won pal.. uGL sucks ass and you are the most qualified person here to say so, cheers.[/quote]


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Blitz on October 26, 2004, 02:24:38 PM
Forget it v1ctor, arguing with him is like arguing with a religious fanatic. TBQ is like a old scratched record if you know what i mean. I never saw or got one intelligent reply from him. Just the same old answers. Anyways, i think we've proven many times that if you use µGL right you can get more compability then dqb. They've seen that quake renderer i did, and other stuff. That's more then enough proof.

And btw, during the 1.5 years i was admin i only banned one person. And that was you TBQ. Personal issues were never the case. It was your constant flames and swearing. You got alteast 5-6 warnings as well. Now post anything you like, i don't consider you worth my time. So i'm not going to reply.

Last thing, allegro is for protected mode dos. That means flat mode and access to 4 GB. You're comparing visual c++ and other 32 bit compilers to qb. Well that's just beyond stupid. Besides, uGL beats allegro performance wide anyday. Allegros innerloops are all written in C, and the algos aren't all that good. You can ask shawn hargrove to compare µGLs innerloop to allegros and see what he says if you don't take my word for it.


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 26, 2004, 03:30:18 PM
Quote from: "v3cz0r"
man, i could have written a 32-bit QB-compatible compiler with that free time ;)

So why didnt you?

Quote from: "v3cz0r"
"Product"? What product? uGL is a programming project, not a product. Just to remind you, it's fully open-source, and you, mr. "Linux lover", why didn't you try to help finding the bugs you mentioned (but never showed).. that's the only way any open-source project can get better, with patches sent by users (remember, this is a functions library, not a word processor). Maybe the code was too complex to you? I can understand that..


Dont play with words. You very well know what I mean. BTW its not the job of the user to make a patch. If you know anything about bug detection and issuing patches then you should know that first the developers *must* acknowledge that the bug exist :roll: which you never did in my case.

I remember telling you that ugl would crash in the debug mode. But you guys always brushed off my post saying "It's impossible for uGL to crash in debug mode". Thats not a very positive answer from a developer, is it? :lol:

Heres a quote from this thread:

Quote from: "Neo"
Well, it's not only UGL's mouse module... it's more. I just run one of your examples (e.g. the line-drawing one, or the one with the polygons), and it crashed. Simple as that.


Yes and now he has a bad box and his hardware is all non-vesa compliant, is it? :barf: I remember posting exactly the same problem 2 years ago on qb45.com.

Quote from: "v3cz0r"
We never denied anything, the problems with ATI's and Voodoos cards....


Guess what? I had 2 SiS cards which had full VESA compatibility and uGL would keep crashing ;). Mind you that Future.Lib still works on WinXP, ME, 98 on all those cards that I listed in my previous posts. My hardware has changed from the legacy to bleeding edge :???:

Quote from: "v3cz0r"
....dont want to beat your ranking in number of posts (again, congrats!). Trying to explain anything related to programming to you is so hard as explaining rocket science to a 8 years old child, i give up.


pure arrogance :barf:

Quote from: "Blitz"
Anyways, i think we've proven many times that if you use µGL right you can get more compability then dqb....


yep, that means you dont know how to use your own library ;) because those examples crash :roll:

Quote from: "Blitz"
...Personal issues were never the case. It was your constant flames and swearing. You got alteast 5-6 warnings as well.


If thats the case then you should've been banned a long time ago. You were the one who started the flaming, name calling etc... I know your favorite word too ;) - "Queer" :roll:

Quote from: "Blitz"
Now post anything you like, i don't consider you worth my time. So i'm not going to reply.


Thats what you say in all your replies ;)

Quote from: "Blitz"
Last thing, allegro is for protected mode dos. That means flat mode and access to 4 GB. You're comparing visual c++ and other 32 bit compilers to qb. Well that's just beyond stupid. Besides, uGL beats allegro performance wide anyday. Allegros innerloops are all written in C, and the algos aren't all that good. You can ask shawn hargrove to compare µGLs innerloop to allegros and see what he says if you don't take my word for it.


 :rotfl: rotflmao. I wasnt comparing Allegro to UGL (DOS). I was talking about the 'to-be' Win32 version of UGL. This is a written proof of how incompetent you think others are :rotfl:

PS: I thought you had left Qbasicnews because "you had enough of us". :rotfl:


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: v3cz0r on October 26, 2004, 04:57:01 PM
Quote
v3cz0r wrote: man, i could have written a 32-bit QB-compatible compiler with that free time  

Quote
So why didnt you?


Heh, wait some weeks and see.. i won't tell you anything about it now, sorry, it's just for coders ;)


Quote
Guess what? I had 2 SiS cards which had full VESA compatibility ...


SiS had(still has?) one of the most f*cked VESA BIOS ever written, i had to trace inside of my SiS 620 using SoftICE for DOS 'coz uGL was crashing for no reason, and guess what.. it WASN'T uGL's fault, but the BIOS service WASN'T preserving the registers it SHOULD. Using flib or running a pmode DOS game wouldn't show any problem, as the problem would ONLY happen when certain STANDARD VBE services were called from real-mode. Guess why uGL uses those STANDARD services.. for getting more speed, so users could make BETTER/BIGGER games, that's what we had in mind when we started writing the lib.


Quote
Yes and now he has a bad box and his hardware is all non-vesa compliant, is it?  I remember posting exactly the same problem 2 years ago on qb45.com.


Just saying it's crashing helps alot, sure.. Again, lets try to explain open-source to non-coders:

If an user posts a report with ENOUGH information to the point that the bug can be REPRODUCED on the developers' boxes, then, if no developer from that project helps fixing the bug coz he/she doesn't want/care, nor any user can find the real cause themselves, you can call the project maintainers (or the project itself) anything you want (stills, if you can't do better or help, you could just stfu). Now, if the user just complains saying it's crap or whatever (as you did at qb45.com's board), then, mate, forget any kind of support, no developer from any open-source project would do anything ever. Want to complain like a baby and yet have all your problems fixed? Pay for it and wait, simple as that.


Now.. back to the work.. FB is coming babe, whoo ;)[/quote]


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 26, 2004, 06:46:59 PM
Quote from: "v3cz0r"
SiS had(still has?) one of the most f*cked VESA BIOS ever written, i had to trace inside of my SiS 620 using SoftICE for DOS 'coz uGL was crashing for no reason, and guess what.. it WASN'T uGL's fault, but the BIOS service WASN'T preserving the registers it SHOULD. Using flib or running a pmode DOS game wouldn't show any problem, as the problem would ONLY happen when certain STANDARD VBE services were called from real-mode. Guess why uGL uses those STANDARD services.. for getting more speed, so users could make BETTER/BIGGER games, that's what we had in mind when we started writing the lib.


Yes, it was a good aim but unfortunately it doesnt work. What good is a porche 911 without any wheels :rotfl:.

Answer this question - "How many bigger and better games have been written *with* UGL and they  work for most people?"


Quote
Just saying it's crashing helps alot, sure..


What more information do you need? You have the card's specs(manufacturer. model), the symptom(crashing), the code(UGL examples...). :roll:

Quote
...as i already lost too much time with this and don't want to beat your ranking in number of posts (again, congrats!).

I thought you werent gonna waste anymore of your 'precious' time.


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: marinedalek on October 26, 2004, 07:42:52 PM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Quote
Just saying it's crashing helps alot, sure..


What more information do you need? You have the card's specs(manufacturer. model), the symptom(crashing), the code(UGL examples...). :roll:


He means generally, not this particular case.  :roll:

Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Yes, it was a good aim but unfortunately it doesnt work. What good is a porche 911 without any wheels :rotfl:.


You need a driving license before you should be let anywhere near a porsche.  :wink:


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: pr0gger on October 26, 2004, 09:06:54 PM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Quote from: "v3cz0r"
SiS had(still has?) one of the most f*cked VESA BIOS ever written, i had to trace inside of my SiS 620 using SoftICE for DOS 'coz uGL was crashing for no reason, and guess what.. it WASN'T uGL's fault, but the BIOS service WASN'T preserving the registers it SHOULD. Using flib or running a pmode DOS game wouldn't show any problem, as the problem would ONLY happen when certain STANDARD VBE services were called from real-mode. Guess why uGL uses those STANDARD services.. for getting more speed, so users could make BETTER/BIGGER games, that's what we had in mind when we started writing the lib.


Yes, it was a good aim but unfortunately it doesnt work. What good is a porche 911 without any wheels :rotfl:.

Answer this question - "How many bigger and better games have been written *with* UGL and they  work for most people?"


Hey, I try.  

If I could only learn to finish stuff, make backups and keep my code legible...

--j_k


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: v3cz0r on October 26, 2004, 09:23:46 PM
Quote
What more information do you need? You have the card's specs(manufacturer. model), the symptom(crashing), the code(UGL examples...).


Heh, that sounds like a grandmother calling M$'s help-desk for support.. "alright, first, close all windows.. ok, wait.. (2 minutes later) hello? (more 5 minutes of total silence) ok back, it's done, what next.. no madam, i meant the windows in your desktop, not the real ones".

But i understand you, i would feel somehow frustrated being in a community where i don't belong.. piss everyone else would be my favorite game, along saying how great i were and how much everyone else sucks.. it's way easier to do and much more fun than coding,for sure ;)


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 27, 2004, 05:19:48 AM
Quote
SiS had(still has?) one of the most f*cked VESA BIOS ever written, i had to trace inside of my SiS 620 using SoftICE for DOS 'coz uGL was crashing for no reason, and guess what..


Ok, lets see now. UGL is incompatible with:
1. SiS
2. ATi
3. Voodoos
4. Onboard Intel gfx

So all these vendors have f*cked up BIOSes or something else wrong with *their* implementation of VESA. Very nice :rotfl:. In neo's case UGL is crashy and Neo has Nvidia :roll:


Quote from: "v3cz0r"
Quote
What more information do you need? You have the card's specs(manufacturer. model), the symptom(crashing), the code(UGL examples...).


Heh, that sounds like a grandmother calling M$'s help-desk for support.. "alright, first, close all windows.. ok, wait.. (2 minutes later) hello? (more 5 minutes of total silence) ok back, it's done, what next.. no madam, i meant the windows in your desktop, not the real ones".

But i understand you, i would feel somehow frustrated being in a community where i don't belong.. piss everyone else would be my favorite game, along saying how great i were and how much everyone else sucks.. it's way easier to do and much more fun than coding,for sure ;)


prancing around the topic, arent you? :rotfl: Sorry dude looks like you have run out of real arguments :rotfl: Stop the bad and unrelated analogies. Nobody can stand up and say UGL is 100% compatible for his/her computer :evil:


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Blitz on October 27, 2004, 05:52:48 AM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Oh and Allegro will beat the @£^$ out of uGL anyday ;)


Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
rotflmao. I wasnt comparing Allegro to UGL (DOS). I was talking about the 'to-be' Win32 version of UGL. This is a written proof of how incompetent you think others are


You weren't? Stick to one thing man, stop changing your mind all the time. Show me some credibility. What do you know about VESA? What do you know about coding at all? Point out somewhere in the µGL code that that doesn't apply to VESA. Show me proof all the crap you say. And stop posting such contradicting bs that forces me to reply.

If you have coded anything at all besides flib and qb you know that any api (win32, ogl, dx, allegro, *nix api, you name it) that you use will crash if you start feeding it with garbage and pointless things. Besides, i've used flib a lot, and it has crashed many times. It hasn't run on manys computers. Was it flibs fault? Nope, it was mine, for assuming things. Gah, why am i even bothering with this? As v1ctor said, it's like arguing rocket science with an 8 year old.


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 27, 2004, 05:58:50 AM
Quote from: "Blitz"
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Oh and Allegro will beat the @£^$ out of uGL anyday ;)


Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
rotflmao. I wasnt comparing Allegro to UGL (DOS). I was talking about the 'to-be' Win32 version of UGL. This is a written proof of how incompetent you think others are


You weren't? Stick to one thing man, stop changing your mind all the time. Show me some credibility. What do you know about VESA? What do you know about coding at all? Show me proof all the crap you say. And stop posting such contradicting bs and forcing me to reply.


Why would i compare the most portable 32bit library(Allegro) with UGL which is written for 16bit QB and that is not portable to any other platform ;). Stop thinking others are stupid people who dont know anything and you're the all knowing god of coding :rotfl:

And no-ones forcing you to reply :wink:. Infact you are not even sticking to your word.
Quote from: "Blitz"
Now post anything you like, i don't consider you worth my time. So i'm not going to reply.


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: wildcard on October 27, 2004, 06:04:45 AM
TBBQ: Stop distracting victor and blitz, me and a whole lot of other people are wanting/waiting for cs2d and freeBasic!


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 27, 2004, 06:06:16 AM
Wildcard if only they could stop flaming me :roll: They just cant handle anybody complaining about UGL :bounce:


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: Blitz on October 27, 2004, 06:07:22 AM
Show me credibility, show me proof. Your posts contains everything but actualy proof of anything. Where is your credibility? Stop avoiding the issue. Show what you have done. Point out to me where the ugl code doesn't follow the vesa api. Before you do that there is nothing more here to discuss.


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 27, 2004, 06:10:54 AM
I am past that. When I had to show the proof I did two years back. I dont need to repeat myself over and over with you denying all bugs/incompatibilies/crashes :roll:


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: wildcard on October 27, 2004, 07:19:38 AM
Two years ago proof that can't be shown now doesn't count.

And you don't have to use UGL, if you did want to you wouldn't be complaining but rather doing a decent bug report.


Title: Mouse Problems in high-res modes...
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on October 27, 2004, 08:27:48 AM
You're right. When I wanted to use it, I reported bugs and stuff giving the details ;) but looking at the response I just lost interest :evil: