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General => General/Misc => Topic started by: aetherfox on February 29, 2004, 02:11:33 PM



Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: aetherfox on February 29, 2004, 02:11:33 PM
I haven't got a response, and I haven't seen one yet.  So here is a petition to Microsoft asking for stuff about QB4.5, QB7.1 and VBDOS.

I haven't set it up, just here is the actual text.  Comment, critique, and tell me what you think needs changing.

Quote

This petition to Microsoft is hereby established for the specific purpose of requesting Microsoft to release its older Basic line of products (QBasic 4.5, QuickBasic 7.1 and Visual Basic for DOS) as a freeware/abandon ware product, or to donate its source code to the public domain.

Signers of this petition are active Basic language developers, and have expressed full support is this request to Microsoft.  By exempting these products from the Microsoft license and copyright policy, Microsoft will be encouraging more developers, and feeding the online Basic programming community with a new, but dying hope.  The support for the community by Microsoft will be appreciated by the signers of this petition, and we ask Microsoft to acknowledge the desire of many hobbyist programmers, and even beginner programmers, who use older compilers like QBasic for fun and a challenge or as a stepping stone to further language.  QBasic is known in the community to be a great stepping stone to other Microsoft products such as the Visual Basic line of products.

Signers of this petition would also like to thank Microsoft for other great products like Visual Basic, Visual C++, and computer games, such as Age Of Mythology.  We hope that you will fulfil our request.


Some of my legalities might be a little skewed.

And please.  Support this.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Z!re on February 29, 2004, 02:35:31 PM
You should add that if they where to charge for their software the large number of people who use it would just switch to another free Language/Compiler set.

Otherwise they might get some crazy ideas... it IS MS you know.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: whitetiger0990 on February 29, 2004, 03:10:19 PM
ya, when i emailed them about a windows qbasic compiler i said that it should be free or else people would just continue using the older DOS version and not use the windows one.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: na_th_an on February 29, 2004, 03:46:57 PM
Great idea. Put this online and I'll be the first to sign.

To me it is stupid that microsoft keeps forbiding the free distribution of a product that is 17 years old.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 29, 2004, 03:53:07 PM
I too support it. I am ready to sign it whenever you put it online =). I feel you should add a line saying that "since this software has no commericial value any more...."


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on February 29, 2004, 04:15:18 PM
I'll sign it, o' course.
I'll make the MySQL db too, if you want.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Silent-Death on February 29, 2004, 05:59:22 PM
I'll sign the thing, just give me a pen.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Agamemnus on February 29, 2004, 06:47:02 PM
fulfil


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Sterling Christensen on February 29, 2004, 08:15:22 PM
Yeah, but what's in it for Microsoft?

The most realistic plan would be to try to buy the rights to QuickBASIC from MS, but I don't think all of us could scrape together enough money.

Anyway, I guess I would take out any suggestion of donating source to the public domain. The request will probably seem a lot more reasonable without it, even if that part is just a suggestion, because it will provoke an automatic No from them.

I pretty sure it's futile, but you'll have my vote anyhow.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: na_th_an on February 29, 2004, 08:57:46 PM
How much would it be? Anybody knows?

Do you notice the danger of someone wanting to buy it? Now microsoft doesn't give a damn about the compiler. It is illegal to download it, but nobody cares, so it is fine. That's what we call abandonware: nobody_cares-ware. But if someone who cared bought the copyright, sites like this would disappear.

I doubt that it is gonna happen, but hey, there is like 1000 people here, and many, many more in other QB sites... Moderately big market, isn't it?


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Plasma on February 29, 2004, 09:02:20 PM
We'll never get the source code (legally), and you can bet Microsoft won't be too keen on making anything "public domain." I think just getting them to release it as freeware would be good enough. (Similar to what Borland (http://bdn.borland.com/museum/) did with their "Museum".) Maybe we could get Microsoft feeling nostalgic...after all, BASIC was how Gates got his start.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: na_th_an on February 29, 2004, 09:56:35 PM
Good point. But I doubt that Bill himself reads the petition :lol: Bleh, let's do it, nothing to luz.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on February 29, 2004, 11:17:25 PM
I wonder. How much do you think it would be, for the rights? I mean, they couldn't place more then 10 thou for an obselete, 20-year-old piece of junk, could they?


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: barok on March 01, 2004, 12:50:26 AM
dammit aetherfox!  get the petition up RIGHT NOW!  we're all signing.  and if microsoft ain't agreeing to our terms, we'll storm microsoft, hold Bill Gates hostage until he agrees to make qb freeware!  EVERYONE WITH ME!  FREE QB!  FREE QB!!

everyone?  arm yourselves.  (picks up pitchfork, and 12 gauge shotgun.)

btw, when i say free qb, i mean free it, not make it free.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on March 01, 2004, 04:44:00 AM
SC, are you crazy? The minimum they would want is 500 million bucks

Nath, are you crazy as well? If m$ cannot stop the piracy of their OSs and all other products then how the hell are they going to check the distribution of a-20-year-old-obsolete-of-no-commercial-value-that-runs-on-a-deprecated-operating-system-software?


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: na_th_an on March 01, 2004, 09:45:26 AM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Nath, are you crazy as well? If m$ cannot stop the piracy of their OSs and all other products then how the hell are they going to check the distribution of a-20-year-old-obsolete-of-no-commercial-value-that-runs-on-a-deprecated-operating-system-software?


Uh? I didn't get you. Am I saying that they should check something?


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: aetherfox on March 01, 2004, 12:14:49 PM
Right, I'll rephrase it and stick a final draft here with all the suggestions made.

I need a favour.

Every single contact you have anywhere, in magazines, websites, newspapers, whatever, squeeze them to put a link to this petition.  Get it on all the major QBasic websites, magazines etc.  If somebody can stick it on a small newspaper, college paper or whatever, if someone can get it into a magazine, etc.

Whats in it for Microsoft?
They are supporting the community.  I tried to use some emotive language there...

Heres the final draft:

Quote

This petition to Microsoft is hereby established for the specific purpose of requesting Microsoft to release its older Basic line of products (QBasic 4.5, QuickBasic 7.1 and Visual Basic for DOS) as a freeware/abandon ware product.

Signers of this petition are active Basic language developers, and have expressed full support is this request to Microsoft. By exempting these products from the Microsoft license and copyright policy, Microsoft will be encouraging more developers, and feeding the online Basic programming community with a new, but dying hope. The support for the community by Microsoft will be appreciated by the signers of this petition, and we ask Microsoft to acknowledge the desire of many hobbyist programmers, and even beginner programmers, who use older compilers like QBasic for fun and a challenge or as a stepping stone to further language. QBasic is known in the community to be a great stepping stone to other Microsoft products such as the Visual Basic line of products.  The fact that it is 17 years old and runs on a platform that has lost support a long time ago doesn't stop these programmers from using it.

Signers of this petition would also like to thank Microsoft for other great products like Visual Basic, Visual C++, and computer games, such as Age Of Mythology. We hope that you will fulfil our request.


I was wondering whether I should make a mention of Borland's Museum products for an example like "make it freeware, like Borland has done with their older range of products."

What you think?


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on March 01, 2004, 02:04:56 PM
That draft looks good, but I think we need more flattery. Try mentioning how we all love Windows XP...And how we are outraged at the disgrace of those among us that peeked at the Windows 2000 source code. :wink:  :wink:  :wink:


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Plasma on March 01, 2004, 04:14:20 PM
Looks pretty good, but I would change a few things:

  • All instances of "Basic" should really be "BASIC" (also, should read "QuickBASIC 4.5", not "QBasic 4.5")
  • I would change the list to include all Microsoft BASIC interpreters and compilers for DOS, not just 4.5/7.1/VBDOS.
  • Abandonware (it's one word) should be left out. Abandonware are programs that the developing company no longer sells or supports. So QB is already abandonware. We want to make it freeware.
  • We shouldn't ask Microsoft to give up their copyrights to QB. It can be freeware and still be copyrighted.
  • Split up the middle paragraph to make it more readable
  • I would mention Borland somewhere in there, and maybe throw in something about Gates and the Altair. :P
If we could get this on Slashdot somehow, we'd have no trouble getting signers...


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on March 01, 2004, 05:05:13 PM
I opened Microsoft Word, typed in "QuickBASIC", and it suggested I use "QuickBasic" instead. So, if Microsoft's spell checker says that, use it. :)


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: LooseCaboose on March 01, 2004, 06:26:37 PM
Quote from: "Plasma"

If we could get this on Slashdot somehow, we'd have no trouble getting signers...


You could do an ask slashdot, something a bit more general, along the lines of "What ancient languages/compilers are people still using and should the copyright holders release them as unsupported freeware" and then mention that you are using QuickBASIC.

I personally don't see how the situation would be any different, Oracle (and other site maintainers) already have the full collection of compilers for download. I doubt Microsoft is going to go out of its way to prevent this, and I doubt that they will do anything drastic like release the source code for the compilers. At the very best you'll be able to download the same software, from the same places, while feeling slightly less guilty. ;-) [/quote]


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: aetherfox on March 02, 2004, 09:50:24 AM
I respectfully disagree.

I think its a big change.  For me, I will be using something legal.  That makes a difference.  Microsoft is showing care.  That makes a difference.  Bring the community as one.  Thats a difference.

You guys know anyone on slashdot?

Quote

This petition to Microsoft is hereby established for the specific purpose of requesting Microsoft to release its older BASIC line of compilers and interpreters  (such asQuickBASIC 4.5/ 7.1 and Visual BASIC for DOS) as freeware products.

Signers of this petition are active BASIC language developers, and have expressed full support is this request to Microsoft. By making the software freeware and allowing distribution, Microsoft will be encouraging more developers, and feeding the online BASIC programming community with a new, but dying hope.  As Borland has done with their older collection of compilers and interpreters, Microsoft could launch a "museum" of their older line of products.

The support for the community by Microsoft will be appreciated by the signers of this petition, and we ask Microsoft to acknowledge the desire of many hobbyist programmers, and even beginner programmers, who use older compilers like QuickBASIC for fun and a challenge or as a stepping stone to further language. QuickBASIC is known in the community to be a great stepping stone to other Microsoft products such as the Visual BASIC line of products. The fact that it is 17 years old and runs on a platform that has lost support a long time ago doesn't stop these programmers from using it.

Signers of this petition would also like to thank Microsoft for other great products like Visual BASIC, Visual C++, and computer games, such as Age Of Mythology. We hope that you will fulfil our request.


Admins: Put this on the news please.  I am disappointed that only 20 replies are on this, 4 from me.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: na_th_an on March 02, 2004, 10:13:42 AM
Lurkers! Lurkers! I am very disappointed as well...

Let's make this. If Microsoft gives a shit about some 1,000s of users this will be a great success.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Z!re on March 02, 2004, 10:15:04 AM
Fixed some spelling errors, and did some minor changes:
Quote
This petition to Microsoft is hereby established for the specific purpose of requesting Microsoft to release its older BASIC line of compilers and interpreters (such as QuickBASIC 4.5/ 7.1 and Visual BASIC for DOS) as freeware products.

Signers of this petition are active BASIC language developers, and have expressed full support in this request to You. By making the software freeware and allowing distribution, like Borland has done with their older collection of compilers and interpreters, You will be encouraging more developers, and feeding the online BASIC programming community with new hope.

The support for the community by You will be appreciated by the signers of this petition, and we ask You to acknowledge the desire of many hobbyist programmers, and even beginner programmers, who use older compilers like QuickBASIC for fun and a challenge or as a stepping stone to further language. QuickBASIC is known in the community to be a great stepping stone to other Microsoft products such as the Visual BASIC line of products. The fact that it is 17 years old and runs on a platform that has lost support a long time ago doesn't stop these programmers from using it.

Signers of this petition would also like to thank Microsoft for other great products like Visual Basic, Visual C++. We hope that you will fulfil our request.


Visual Basic, not Visual BASIC
Changed Microsoft to You
Moved  "like Borland has done with their older collection of compilers and interpreters" and removed the part about their library.
Changed some punctuation.
And added a space anf fixed spelling errors.


Where can we sign it?


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Jonathan Simpson on March 02, 2004, 12:55:39 PM
Drat, I tried signing it and now my signature is stuck in the middle of my screen...
Anyway, you have my support.

Jonathan Simspon


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: aetherfox on March 02, 2004, 01:18:10 PM
It's done.

I've finished it, it's online at http://www.petitiononline.com/qbasicp/petition.html.

I had to do it here.

Sign it.

I used petitiononline because it's huge and even has press coverage...I'm sure the chances of getting found are slightly larger...


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on March 02, 2004, 01:33:42 PM
Broken link...can't tell ya whether it's 404, 405, or 40*, because there's this stupid spyware that makes me go to PerfectNav.com every time there's an error. :evil:


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Plasma on March 02, 2004, 01:45:38 PM
Remove the period from the end of the url: http://www.petitiononline.com/qbasicp/petition.html


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on March 02, 2004, 02:27:59 PM
Signed. :D
Some of those comments are a little...anti-Microsoft though. Don't know how if that'll go down to well.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: red_Marvin on March 02, 2004, 03:52:37 PM
Signed. Why can't I view the list? It only says:
Quote
Name Comments Which of the BASIC line of products do you use?

 
11 Total Signatures
 
 
 
View Signatures : 11    
 


Also Just a thought: what if MS decides to start an enormous lawsuit
against all those on the list, for illegal use of copyrighted products?


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on March 02, 2004, 04:08:45 PM
Because they don't give a rats arse about QB. The outcome of this will be either Yes (unlikely) or No.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Plasma on March 02, 2004, 04:27:37 PM
Quote from: "red_Marvin"
Signed. Why can't I view the list? It only says:
Quote
Name Comments Which of the BASIC line of products do you use?

 
11 Total Signatures
 
 
 
View Signatures : 11    
 


Also Just a thought what if MS decides to start an enormous lawsuit
against all those on the list, for illegal use of copyrighted products?


Your browser isn't returning a referrer...try turning off your firewall temporarily.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Silent-Death on March 02, 2004, 06:47:29 PM
About that thing you said about trying to contact everyone we can to sign the pention... I'm subscibed to a mag. called PC Gamer. Want me to wright a letter asking people for support?


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: barok on March 02, 2004, 09:25:51 PM
yes! all the merrier!


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: LooseCaboose on March 03, 2004, 12:56:50 AM
Quote from: "aetherfox"

You guys know anyone on slashdot?


It is free to sign up to Slashdot and anyone can submit news or ask Slashdot. I have posted on a few of the articles there.

Quote from: "na_th_an"

Let's make this. If Microsoft gives a @^$ about some 1,000s of users this will be a great success.

Quote from: "aetherfox"

I think its a big change. For me, I will be using something legal. That makes a difference. Microsoft is showing care. That makes a difference. Bring the community as one. Thats a difference


I did say it was my personal opinion, but it would be nice to be able to use the compilers legally. However all I see happening if Microsoft agree to this, is that the compilers license will be changed to freeware and no more. I dont think Microsoft are going to start supporting the products, release the source code (Microsoft are still making money of Basic products) or anything major like that. For most of us the situation will be the same (IMHO).

Edit: I did sign the petition, because I am a supporter of the QB community.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: aetherfox on March 03, 2004, 06:54:31 AM
hmmm

enormous lawsuit?

it scares me...

my info is up there...

ah shit.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Blitz on March 03, 2004, 07:03:38 AM
Let's say they do release the source, what are you going to do with it? Expand on it? Port it to pmode? Just look at the source for qbasic 1.1, by the time you've figured out how it works you could have written your own from scratch. Nah, the source is useless. And this freeware thing, who cares if you download an illegal copy? M$ certainly don't.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: R@dioman on March 03, 2004, 08:05:10 AM
Blitz has a point. Are there any coders out there skillfull enough to understand the complexity of QB's source code and expand from that? They would have to restructurize the whole thing from near scratch. I'm sure it's doable but with technology expanding very rapidly, QB, I'm afraid, is doomed for extinction. :(  Maybe a few hobbyist will still be toying with it in 20 years using their ancient pc. Who knows, maybe I'm just a pessimist.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on March 03, 2004, 10:44:36 AM
Well, I hope none of you were hoping to be able to recompile it, because that's generally impossible.
Anyway, no, perhaps not, but we could take asm PROC for the MID$() function, without making our own...probably wouldn't understand stuff like the memory allocation and tokenizing they do, but like I said, we could rip some functions.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Blitz on March 03, 2004, 04:51:50 PM
For what purpose? It's not exactly the best code you'll ever see, not even close. And if the runtime lib is all you want then download the qbasic 1.1 source, the runtime lib is pretty much the same in all of them.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: mark woods on March 03, 2004, 06:15:19 PM
If this doesn't work maybe a petition should be set up to make QB available for a small price say 30.  They could have one of those pay to download things.  Or just chuck it on a CD with a license.  I want to get a legal copy of QB but I just can't find one anywhere.  Except for one site selling them second hand at $175.  

This would at least provide Microsoft a reason for doing it.

Of course there would be no point in doing this if this petition works.  Which i sincerely hope it does.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: barok on March 03, 2004, 06:17:01 PM
besides, qb is slow.  plus you have limited memory.  a coding group might as well make a new qb from scratch.  shinier, faster, more memory, etc. etc.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on March 03, 2004, 07:37:50 PM
Come on..."QB is slow", yeah, it is, now go give it up and learn C.
"QB Has limited memory", fine, go learn protected-mode, 32-bit assembly.
Jeez. It isn't QBasic that we love, it's the community that was built. C communities will send someone to kill you if you post a newbie question on a forum.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: LooseCaboose on March 04, 2004, 07:49:09 AM
Quote from: "Blitz"

Let's say they do release the source, what are you going to do with it? Expand on it? Port it to pmode? Just look at the source for qbasic 1.1, by the time you've figured out how it works you could have written your own from scratch


The are a number of open source Basic compilers available at the moment that would be a far better starting point than getting Qbasics source code. A number of people here have complained that none of the free Basic's available are 100% QBasic compatible. If they are open source, why not build on the existing work and try and work towards full QBasic compatibility (which probably wont happen once you goto pmode/32 bit).

I have the source to Liberty Basic somewhere and intend to have a look at it when I get some spare time. Although spare time is looking pretty slim this year, as Im working two jobs and doing Honours at Uni, my year project is on compilers though ;-)


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: adosorken on March 05, 2004, 06:21:33 PM
Quote from: "Zack"
It isn't QBasic that we love, it's the community that was built. C communities will send someone to kill you if you post a newbie question on a forum.

Amen to that one. :D

Besides, when OBDS is done, people will have a 100% QB compatible BASIC for Windows (less libraries, of course...but there's a way around that too...hee hee) without segment limitations or sourcecode size limits.[/plug]


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on March 05, 2004, 07:26:03 PM
See, I'm going to ask a newbie question right here, and people will be friendly, and not rip my lungs out: what's ODBC? (seriously, I want an answer to this one).


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: oracle on March 05, 2004, 08:52:27 PM
AFAIK it's Open DataBase Connectivity, a policy by microsoft to set some standards about retrieving and storing information in databases.

But you really meant OBDS, didn't you ;) ;)


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: adosorken on March 06, 2004, 09:51:17 AM
In response to LC's post:

OBDS: Open Basic Development System. :)


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Zack on March 07, 2004, 12:10:53 PM
Okay, so just another Database solution?
(Counts: MySQL, MS SQL server, ODBS, Access...)


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Frobozz on March 08, 2004, 12:56:44 AM
Another free compiler, called QuickForward, is currently being developed.  The goal of the compiler is to be 99% compatible with QuickBasic.  You might want to check it out at some point.  I've posted the link below.

http://www.sunbeem.net/quickforward

The developer would also appreciate any help towards releasing it sooner. :wink:


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Ruudboy on March 08, 2004, 04:29:29 PM
i h8 microsoft. PLEASE LET ME SIGN IT


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: KiZ on March 08, 2004, 04:36:25 PM
well dont write anything untowards in it. Because we want to suck up to Microsoft, ok. ;)


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: retsyo on January 08, 2005, 03:13:50 AM
No more news?


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Z!re on January 08, 2005, 03:31:37 AM
I think it kind of died, and now with freeBASIC and all, whats the point..


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: retsyo on January 08, 2005, 04:55:03 AM
well, I like both intepreter and compiler, not only in BASIC domain but also in C/C++ domain.
The intepreter is good during program design by at least eliminating compilation time; but FBC is not, we have to compile and wait again if we have to check a new added function(yes, I know FBC gives a speedup than an intepreter and maybe old QB compiler does). QB's intepreter is not only an intepreter but also an amazing IDE, but FBC is console program, thus set a higher threshold for a newbie. And no other program than qb that can declare to support 100% qb-syntax, so some old souce files can not be used directly or safely.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: adosorken on January 08, 2005, 09:23:46 AM
Welcome to the world of actual coders. Wave goodbye to the world of hold-your-hand coding. :D


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: na_th_an on January 08, 2005, 12:21:32 PM
Yeah! Let's ditch fB and return to QB! No, wait, still better, let's return to code for the C64! NO NO! I want to use a perforette in some cards for the IBM 360!


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: marinedalek on January 08, 2005, 12:38:31 PM
At least you had a multi-voice synthesiser in the C64...  :P


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Sterling Christensen on January 08, 2005, 12:40:34 PM
Hey, come on guys. I don't know about you, but newbie-friendliness is how I became a part of the QB community.

The QB community was something wonderful and unique in many ways. I'd like to see hundreds of amateur FreeBASIC sites hosting tons of programs and tutorials, with 2 to 5 major FreeBASIC sites (both the quality-over-quantity and quantity-over-quality kinds), with active forums, eZines, competitions, etc. A new incomplete yet promising RPG every few months. Ah the good old days!

And while some people may find them annoying, I for one enjoy answering newbie's questions every now and then.

I think there's something to be said for "hold-your-hand coding" if it helps nurture a community, as long as there aren't any real compromises to speed/power/flexibility. The more VonGidric's IDE matures, and the sooner adosorken's GUI Compiler is released and some documentation/tutorials are finished, the better.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: marinedalek on January 08, 2005, 12:51:01 PM
I think an interpreter along the lines of the M$ QBASIC interpreters would make a nice addition to the freeBASIC "catalogue". There's a certain hands-on feel that line-by-line interpreters have that is lost when using a standalone compiler.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: DrV on January 08, 2005, 01:43:36 PM
Quote from: "na_th_an"
NO NO! I want to use a perforette in some cards for the IBM 360!


Hey, the 360 had 32 general purpose registers...  hrm... asm sounds like fun!  :barf:


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Z!re on January 09, 2005, 12:07:58 AM
Wait.. wait WAIT!... you're telling me.. that FB isnt developed on ENIAC using cards? WTF!

What peice of junk is this.. "FB"..!


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: ShadowWolf on January 09, 2005, 06:32:10 AM
an interpreter isn't really need though a good Debuger and a  good ide all that need and it looks pretty much the same to the user write program compile if there a problem compiler spits out error then you go fix it.  

all the interputer was good for was steping though code and you can do somthing simler with a debuger.  

anyways if somone wanted a interputer some could writte one for it the compiler does have a intermedia lang right so you could interputed that but i have no clue how you would handle DLL/LIB calls though.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: adosorken on January 09, 2005, 11:11:03 AM
Yeah, its intermediate language is called "assembly" ;)


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: aetherfox on January 09, 2005, 12:32:01 PM
I don't know about Von's IDE...I'm kind of shaking in my seat for Neks...from the screens he's shown me and what I hear, it's going to be drooltastic.


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: MystikShadows on January 10, 2005, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: "Sterling Christensen"
Yeah, but what's in it for Microsoft?


Well, here's what I'm thinking....First off, that source code for QBasic 1.1 which was "leaked out" is strategy for the other DOSes out there to be tempted to use it, incorporate it into their OS projects and then poof, along comes M$ and sticks a stick in the wheel.

2. In a way they could definitaly want to see theyr code out there for the sake of mere recognition if not anything else.  But Point number 1 here might give them a 2nd reason to do so ;-).

I think that for the same 2 reasons, any MS compiler should be released even in public domain (especially with the now bigger influence of OpenSource software, would give then incentive to let it go)


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: barok on January 10, 2005, 11:01:24 AM
Quote from: "Sterling Christensen"
Hey, come on guys. I don't know about you, but newbie-friendliness is how I became a part of the QB community.

The QB community was something wonderful and unique in many ways. I'd like to see hundreds of amateur FreeBASIC sites hosting tons of programs and tutorials, with 2 to 5 major FreeBASIC sites (both the quality-over-quantity and quantity-over-quality kinds), with active forums, eZines, competitions, etc. A new incomplete yet promising RPG every few months. Ah the good old days!

And while some people may find them annoying, I for one enjoy answering newbie's questions every now and then.

I think there's something to be said for "hold-your-hand coding" if it helps nurture a community, as long as there aren't any real compromises to speed/power/flexibility. The more VonGidric's IDE matures, and the sooner adosorken's GUI Compiler is released and some documentation/tutorials are finished, the better.


Oh no!  I joined because people flamed me on every post i made, I was scoffed at and constantly accused of spamming up the forums!


Title: PETITION
Post by: MNDRBNDR on January 14, 2005, 08:18:00 PM
i'll also sign. i think it's a good idea to give the public access to the old languages, i also support it of being free, also maybe suggest a way of making it work on all platforms ie(under xp)


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: whitetiger0990 on January 14, 2005, 08:30:49 PM
Go ahead and sign it. It's dead, it was made march 2004 =P


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: Nathan1993 on January 16, 2005, 08:42:15 PM
Wow... 367 people? WELL! I am #367 :rotfl:


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: aetherfox on January 20, 2005, 07:20:38 AM
An idea I had a long time ago, what was no good.  It's 10 months now, and not even 500 people...the response I got when I decided to do this was overwhelming...and with a few thousand people who use the language and interpreter on solely this forum, I thought the chances were good.  Once I hit thousand, I was going to submit it.

Didn't work.


Title: Excellent Idea
Post by: RayBritton on January 26, 2005, 09:52:52 AM
^Above^

I'll sign, thats an excellent idea


Title: Petition to Microsoft
Post by: na_th_an on January 26, 2005, 10:19:53 AM
This was a nice idea 10 months ago. Taking 10 months for 368 people to sign really doesn't mean much.