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General => General/Misc => Topic started by: LooseCaboose on February 12, 2004, 10:46:01 PM



Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: LooseCaboose on February 12, 2004, 10:46:01 PM
If this is true it could be potentially devasting to Microsoft, story here: http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=17509&category=main and here: http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3312451

For the interested, here is a list of the files that are supossedly contained in the leaked archives: http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~mortehu/files.txt. Its difficult to determine whether or not its the operating system code just by looking at the file names. Heres some of the more interesting filenames though:
Code:

win2k/private/inet/urlmon/iapp/gnumakefile
win2k/private/inet/xml/xml/tokenizer/dll/words of wisdom from dennis.eml
win2k/private/inet/xml/xml/dso/letter to children - 2.eml
win2k/private/ntos/w32/ntuser/kernel/
win2k/private/shell/wontfix.txt
win2k/private/shell/docs/leak.txt
win2k/private/shell/shdocvw/ofbugs.txt
win2k/private/shell/cpls/appwiz/todo
win2k/private/windows/shell/games/sol/sol.c


It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: na_th_an on February 12, 2004, 10:48:48 PM
I hope this is true. If it is, we'll have sometime soon an Open Source Windows :D


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 12, 2004, 10:52:08 PM
I sure hope this is a hoax. If not, then, like they said, this would be absolutely devastating. In fact, it would perhaps be the end of Microsoft's reputation as the leading OS-maker.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Agamemnus on February 12, 2004, 11:21:42 PM
The disadvantages may outweight the advantages:

Different methodologies.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: LooseCaboose on February 12, 2004, 11:22:21 PM
Quote from: "na_th_an"

I hope this is true. If it is, we'll have sometime soon an Open Source Windows


Theres a huge downside to this. If the source has been leaked and Microsoft openly admit it and then they claim that developers on open source projects such as Linux and Wine are "stealing" the leaked code to improve their projects it could crush open source developement. Linux is under scrutiny from SCO, who claim that the Linux kernel contains code that was leaked from SCO's Unix.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 12, 2004, 11:28:41 PM
SCO doesn't have a leg to stand on, that's why they had to revise their original claim to be less full of shyte. Their only minor advantage is in the fact that Microsoft is supporting them, so they won't run out of funds for lawyer's fees. Unfortunately for SCO, they don't stand a snowball's chance in hell, even with Microsoft's backing. Everyone knows that Microsoft's only in on it to take yet another stab at the open source community...only this time, they're really gonna kitten up their PR if they keep supporting these idiots.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: LooseCaboose on February 12, 2004, 11:36:22 PM
Quote from: "adosorken"

SCO doesn't have a leg to stand on,


Yeah, the case has been quite funny to watch. One of the segments of code that SCO claimed that Linux had stolen was a piece of public domain code for a malloc routine that first appeared in one Knuth's book somewhere in the early 60's.

The problem with the SCO case (and potentially if Microsoft claimed that OSS stole from leaked Windows code) is not whether its true or not, its the damage that is done from the allegations. Comapanies that were looking to switch to Linux when SCO first started making claims, shyed away because the outcome was unclear then. SCO are still putting out enough propaganda to scare away some potential Linux customers.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 12, 2004, 11:41:52 PM
As morally wrong as the whole thing is, one thing people tend to forget is that business is business. It would be difficult to bring libel charges against Microsoft and SCO in tihs case, simply because one of the key factors of open source isn't profit, so under libel laws, no one's being hurt. If Linux was represented by a profitable company, Microsoft and SCO would be hit with libel charges so fast their heads would spin. Really sucks that nothing can be done about it, but that's one of the risks of being not-for-profit.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: LooseCaboose on February 12, 2004, 11:51:25 PM
Quote from: "adosorken"

If Linux was represented by a profitable company, Microsoft and SCO would be hit with libel charges so fast their heads would spin. Really sucks that nothing can be done about it, but that's one of the risks of being not-for-profit.


There are two parts to SCOs case, one is that Linux contains code that has been lifted from SCO Unix. The second is that IBM has put code into the Linux kernel that is derived from SCO Unix. IBM licences SCOs Unix technology to develop AIX. The license disallows derived works to be released to the public. SCO are claiming that code that IBM has made available for Linux, such as JFS and NUMA are derived works of AIX and in turn, SCO Unix. IBM are of course counter-sueing SCO for being complete dum-dums. IIRC RedHat also counter-sued SCO for damaging its legimate business practice through propaganda without proof.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 13, 2004, 12:01:02 AM
In the IBM case, SCO really doesn't have a prayer. I am still laughing at SCO for this whole thing. And as far as I can remember...wasn't the Red Hat case settled? I didn't see much about it when I was reading the OSI's paper...


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 13, 2004, 12:56:25 AM
There's a long history of law suits against Microsoft...but the lawsuits really can't exceed a few billion. So, every time someone tries, MS would just shrug and hand over the money.
But I don't support all this MS-bashing. I just think they make a really great OS, and really great software. So sue me. (pun intended. :P )


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: LooseCaboose on February 13, 2004, 01:09:13 AM
Quote from: "Zack"

But I don't support all this MS-bashing. I just think they make a really great OS


Im not bashing MS, Im posting this story out of interest and I believe that if this isn't a hoax it may have some effect on the operating system market over the next few years. Whether it is too Microsofts benefit or not is yet to be seen.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 13, 2004, 01:12:28 AM
IMHO you're making an understatement. This would shake the foundations of Microsoft. Their Windows 2000 and Windows NT OSes would be pretty much rendered  useless in the eyes of administrators.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 13, 2004, 01:32:58 AM
Quote from: "Didio in an interview on http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3312451"
With the open source community, there are a large percentage of tinkers and 'ankle biters' who are trying their hand at hacking. Some are even communicating with each other. So it only takes one or two of these groups sharing information to be able to pull something off. When you have this type of passion, it's hard to fight because these people are like virtual suicide car bombers.

Yeah, thats right, Open Source people are just like suicide bombers.

Hey everyone, we have just been labeled as suicide bombers, because we share our code.
*picks up bomb and goes out to car to drive to nearest MS office*

And guess what, some of the open source people are actually communicating with each other... ARGH!!.... ARREST THEM!

Seriously, it would't surprise me if it was all some PR stunt by MS themselves, it comes at a little to handy time for them, with the SCO lawsuit, their new OS comming up, and the TCPA things http://www.AgainstTCPA.com

Hey, Zack, MS just called you a terrorist, and according to US law that makes them able to put you in jail.. for virtually (hehe, virtual, lol) nothing.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Plasma on February 13, 2004, 01:48:04 AM
It's not a PR stunt...a core dump was found with the leak that indicates it was leaked by somebody from Mainsoft (http://mainsoft.com/news/press_releases/2000_3_22_01.html).


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 13, 2004, 02:16:11 AM
Z!re, only the US government can do that. The private sector has no control over the enforcement of the Patriot Act (thankfully).

Regardless of whatever stunt SCO, MS, or any other would-be wants to pull off, I'll always be an open-source supporter. All this negativity against open source is simply backlash from lost profits due to people realizing that commercial applications have sucked for the past five years and people are looking towards, and finding, legitimate alternatives.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: KiZ on February 13, 2004, 07:22:56 AM
Quote from: "Z!re"
Hey, Zack, MS just called you a terrorist, and according to US law that makes them able to put you in jail.. for virtually (hehe, virtual, lol) nothing.


Huh? how?!


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 13, 2004, 12:31:10 PM
DP, the Patriot Act allows the US government to arbitrarily arrest and incarcerate anyone who *might* be a terrorist. They don't even have to have a warrant, and if you're taken in this way, you're not obligated to a fair trial either. The Patriot Act is a gigantic spit on the face of the forefathers of the USA, as it is a direct contradiction to the Constitution and all the principles this nation was founded on. There isn't anything anyone can do about it either, since it was signed in by the President, and even if Congress were to overturn it, he could overturn the overturning because he has that kind of power. Basically...we have to wait until we have a Democrat in office before we can rid the country of the barrel-feeding scum-sucker that is George W Bush and his freedom-raping Patriot Act. And when his scumbag arse is kicked out of the White House, I'm going to laugh in his face for being such a moron redneck who is only president because Jeb Bush in Florida messed with the voting results.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 13, 2004, 01:05:28 PM
I've never been extremely fanatic about this open-source thing...It's just useful, if you ask me, not any weird, elite "passion" or whatever...
Making software is like making food. You don't leak your ingredients if they are unique and make you money.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rokkuman on February 13, 2004, 01:07:14 PM
I hate it when I have no friggin' idea what anyone's talking about... knowing it's bad.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 13, 2004, 01:08:03 PM
Read the articles. :P
(offtopic: PJ...did ya get up at 4 this morning? :P )


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Hard Rock on February 13, 2004, 02:57:20 PM
Microsofts statement.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/Feb04/02-12windowssource.asp

How come we never had a half life 2 leaked thread?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 13, 2004, 03:05:22 PM
They sound worried.
"We will continue to moniter the situation" is pretty serious for Microsoft, if you ask me.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Agamemnus on February 13, 2004, 04:47:28 PM
Whoah, whoah.

Trail of tears. Executive order against a direct court ruling. I don't see you bashing that too often, Nek.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 13, 2004, 05:15:32 PM
Just when you thought you had me all figured out again, eh Aga? :D


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Diroga on February 13, 2004, 05:20:02 PM
how critical are those files that were leaked?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Shogun on February 13, 2004, 05:25:43 PM
Quote from: "Zack"
I sure hope this is a hoax. If not, then, like they said, this would be absolutely devastating. In fact, it would perhaps be the end of Microsoft's reputation as the leading OS-maker.


 :o  I didn't know they ever where :o


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 13, 2004, 05:35:06 PM
Wow, we can expect more windows servers to go down =( and more viruses. Thank you M$.

May be M$'s new slogan will be:
Microsoft, how vulnerable do you want to be today?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 13, 2004, 05:36:53 PM
In that case, I'm glad Linux is the OS of choice throughout our entire data center. :D


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 13, 2004, 05:37:52 PM
I love ya LINUX!!! :bounce:


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Agamemnus on February 13, 2004, 06:16:35 PM
Doesn't matter.

Vulnerability with released source code is only an issue when the code is buggy...


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 13, 2004, 06:50:30 PM
Damn, why all this MS bashing?
And Shogun, I mean out of the general programming community, Windows is by far the leading OS.
There are countless web hosts that use Windows 2000 for their servers.
And people, THIS ISN'T MICROSOFT's FAULT. You think they'd actually leak their source code on purpose?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 13, 2004, 07:12:25 PM
Microsoft is the leading OS company...for desktop computers.

UNIX still owns the server industry and always will.

The number of Windows servers is very countable. The number of Linux/Apache servers may not be. :)


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Plasma on February 13, 2004, 07:33:45 PM
Actually, Microsoft has about a 50% market share (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/148915_msftlinux19.html) when it comes to server OSes. UNIX and Linux have 34%.

(http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20031119/osmarketshare.gif)

Apache does beat IIS though.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 13, 2004, 07:39:09 PM
Read the fine print on that image you posted... ;)


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Plasma on February 13, 2004, 08:04:45 PM
...and that's about how it's looked every year for the past 5 years.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 13, 2004, 08:24:14 PM
Why Windows is popular:
All, and I do mean All, computers you buy in stores comes with windows

School's teach Windows


So microsoft controlling 93.8% of the desktop computer market is nothin special, and means absolutely nothing, the survey is based on the number of licenses.

I know a lot of people who bought a computer bundled with a windows license, formatted and now run Linux.

Also, there is no need to register linux to use it, as oposite to windows.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 13, 2004, 08:35:26 PM
I personally refuse to run Linux on the desktop until they start making a nice, fast, and clean UI with some form of continuity among applications.

On the other hand, I refuse to run Windows on my servers because...well, I don't think I even need to go into details. :D


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 13, 2004, 09:48:38 PM
Quote from: "adosorken"
I personally refuse to run Linux on the desktop until they start making a nice, fast, and clean UI with some form of continuity among applications.
Make one yourself :lol:

I hear you, Linux is simply not good for the average user, their GUI is too messy atm.

But for servers and firewalls linux is the best (my opinion)

I use:
Internet
Modem
Linux machine with FW
Me running w98 (yeay)  :lol:

XP=A nice little kindergarten thigny, look at the rounded corners, they are there if you fall you don't hit your head, and the smooth colours and transparency sucking up your RAM, it's all so... cute.... :lol: and I absolutely hate it :P


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Diroga on February 13, 2004, 10:56:11 PM
dose not a universal OS make sense?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 13, 2004, 11:03:52 PM
I usually turn the crappy XP effects off. And I don't think I'll be coding a Linux UI anytime soon...that's only one piece of the "I won't use Linux on my desktop" pie :)

A universal OS would suck...it would kill innovation that's spawned by competition. :D


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: toonski84 on February 13, 2004, 11:58:30 PM
Windows has a full market share because of good business practices.  They're a company that sells software.  Dont be all elitist because they're successful.  Do you think they were just handed 90% of the market share?  Think about how many of you here use Windows (this is a rhetorical question, Linux users).

As for the code leak, this is bad news, but less than 5% of the source code was stolen.  Try and do anything effective with 5% of any of programs, and you'll understand it's fixable.  

On a side note, I think it would be interesting to see a new computer chip architecture and a new OS built from the ground up.  It would be an impossibly difficult task and it would never sell well, but it would be interesting to see a modern operating system that hasn't been built upon for 10+ years.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 14, 2004, 12:17:24 AM
Quote from: "toonski84"
As for the code leak, this is bad news, but less than 5% of the source code was stolen. Try and do anything effective with 5% of any of programs, and you'll understand it's fixable.

The leaked source is 660Mb.

If you take your 5%: 660*20=12Gb source, for 2 OS's which both fit on 650discs?

The full code constist of somewhat 40milion lines of code, this is NOT 40Gb as some sites say, 40'000'000 lines of code, 50bytes per line = 2Gb


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 14, 2004, 02:17:16 AM
Sourcecode size does not equal binary executable size. Ever. That's just the way it is. Quite often, especially in cases like this, the sourcecode is far larger than the binaries. When I disassemble programs, the listfile is often 60-70 times larger than the EXE, and it's straight assembly language.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 14, 2004, 02:23:58 AM
Quote from: "adosorken"
Sourcecode size does not equal binary executable size. Ever. That's just the way it is. Quite often, especially in cases like this, the sourcecode is far larger than the binaries. When I disassemble programs, the listfile is often 60-70 times larger than the EXE, and it's straight assembly language.

I know, but it's MicroSoft's own fact that the full source is 40million LINES long, and NOT 40Gb.

If you use ASM only (yeah right, MS making an OS using only ASM)
The average line would be less than 50bytes so the source would be smaller (in size) than 2Gb.

However you turn it there is no way you get to a 40Gb code with 40G lines, unless you have a line average of 1k bytes, and that is a very very long line


[EDIT]
Ey... They removed the quote about open source coders being just like suicide car bombers over at http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3312451
Wonder why :rotfl:


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 14, 2004, 02:33:32 AM
If the leaked source is 660MB and it was less than 5% of 40 million lines, either the sourcecode is saturated with comments or one of the figures is wrong. I agree that it is highly unlikely that 5% = 660MB of sourcecode. I think that 5 is missing a 0 after it ;) (aka 50%)


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Diroga on February 14, 2004, 02:44:07 AM
you hear about half-life 2? they say they got leaked too. really what is the benifit some one could get from the source on them files?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 14, 2004, 04:53:52 AM
Quote from: "Toonski"
Windows has a full market share because of good business practices.


Dont you talk about good business practices. You should really go back into history and see how bill gates has built his company. All the cheating, deception, lies...you cant imagine it. All the major companies have been fooled/cheated by microsoft at one time or the other.

And they release their software with so much holes in them that you need not search for vulnerabilities.

Tell me despite Linux being opensource why arent viruses being written to target their systems? I mean a determined hacker could do that but it is tad difficult.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 14, 2004, 05:10:55 AM
Quote from: "Diroga"
you hear about half-life 2? they say they got leaked too. really what is the benifit some one could get from the source on them files?

HL2 source got stolen, someone outside hacked a developers email and gained access to the source.

Windows source got leaked, someone who had the source through MS's "open source" thingy leaked it. The MS Open Source thingy is: MS gave a few companies the exclusive rights to have windows code, it is copyrighted and they are not allowed to distribute it. But someone did anyways.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 14, 2004, 05:23:57 AM
It was daring of him/her =). They will most likely trace him =(.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 14, 2004, 05:31:30 AM
He's is traced, but they can't get him, he's finnish (atleast that's what I heard, almost a month ago now, not really sure if it was he who did it or he who was the first to distribute it :-? )


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: toonski84 on February 14, 2004, 05:49:09 AM
Source code is not small.  I'm sure it includes comments, but chew on this:  QB1.1 is less than a megabyte, but it's source code on my computer is over 30 megabytes.  Windows is over a gigabyte on my computer.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 14, 2004, 09:01:00 AM
how can Windows be over a gig on your hd? wtf are you installing?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 14, 2004, 09:19:52 AM
rhia, my programfiles folder is 1.13GB and my windows folder is 1.23GB =P. And I am running WinME without any extras =).

JFYI My Redhat 9 full install is just ~700MB =P.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 14, 2004, 11:03:48 AM
A Win98 install is only about 200MB when installed fresh and the user has experience. My Win98 install is about 500MB because of all the extra DLLs and OCXs I've installed or created over time. The size of the Windows directory is irrelevant. Your computer's usefulness is the relevant factor.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: KiZ on February 14, 2004, 11:15:23 AM
Quote from: "Z!re"
Quote from: "Diroga"
you hear about half-life 2? they say they got leaked too. really what is the benifit some one could get from the source on them files?

HL2 source got stolen, someone outside hacked a developers email and gained access to the source.


And not just that. The sneaky bastard used a trojan to insert a keyboard monitor on the lead developer Gabe Newell's computer. The keyboard monitor recorded all the keys pressed, and sent them back to the hackers computer. That was how the hacker stole the usernames and passwords for the Valve servers, and how he knew all the emails and letters that were being sent. He stole the sourcecode, and made a crude, but playable version of HL2, then distributed it. Valve called for internet bounty hunters, and offered rewards for any information about the hacker. They were damn keen to get im.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Agamemnus on February 14, 2004, 11:41:32 AM
Funny. My win98 install is 122mb.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 14, 2004, 11:56:40 AM
Thank you, Mr Nitpick, for that piece of information. :P


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 14, 2004, 01:44:37 PM
Mine is 644Mb, If i install enough I think I can get it to 1.2Gb.

Size of the windows folder after installation, is about as usefull for giving the size for windows as telling how many tires your car has when you want to know how far it has driven.

My installation has the habbit of creating: "fff99527_{4D19FDE1-5B2B-11D8-BF6A-0010A7095A55}.tmp" (or alike) files in my windows folder, they are all 0bytes and about 2 per boot is created, fun huh?. :lol:


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Diroga on February 14, 2004, 02:35:24 PM
I heard HL2 was distributed in Russia only. They actually caught they guy?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 14, 2004, 03:02:57 PM
Don't know if they got him, but the last thing I heard was they traced the first distributed source leak of HL2 to a guy in finland.

The first ones to download it was russion, but they downloaded it from the finnish guy.

And only downloading it is not a crime, distributing it on the other hand is.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Hard Rock on February 14, 2004, 03:38:16 PM
Quote

And only downloading it is not a crime, distributing it on the other hand is.

Nope downloading is a crime. Distrubuting is just more serious.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: red_Marvin on February 14, 2004, 04:18:58 PM
Quote from: "Z!re"
My installation has the habbit of creating: "fff99527_{4D19FDE1-5B2B-11D8-BF6A-0010A7095A55}.tmp" (or alike) files in my windows folder, they are all 0bytes and about 2 per boot is created, fun huh?. :lol:


I also have a lot of those, what are they?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 14, 2004, 05:09:17 PM
Look at the extension: .tmp they are temporary files and may be safely deleted.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: red_Marvin on February 14, 2004, 05:47:33 PM
Yeah, but I more wondered why and what they were doing there...
Nice recipe btw...


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Diroga on February 14, 2004, 06:08:36 PM
so the HL2 source code came with the graphics. how long did it take them to realize that it got stolen


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 14, 2004, 06:18:17 PM
The day after I think, if I remember it correctly.

IE.
Day1: It got stolen, distributed
Day2: They found the source on the I-Net...

But before Day1 the vilain had installed a keylogger and keept track of them for over a month (they found an unknown IP in their email logs accessing their accounts)

Imagine working on a huge project, and one day realize the source is on the i-net, kinnda sucks.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: seph on February 14, 2004, 06:21:30 PM
Quote from: "adosorken"
A Win98 install is only about 200MB when installed fresh and the user has experience.

Versus Win98 install being 200GB when installed fresh and the user being new to computers LOL!!! damn rat bastards Microshaft


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 14, 2004, 08:59:02 PM
To succeed as a large business, you need shify practises. Plain and simple. That includes legal cheating.
Windows XP on main (preinstalled, bleah :barf: ) comes to...a few gigs.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 15, 2004, 05:08:56 AM
Quote from: "seph"
Quote from: "adosorken"
A Win98 install is only about 200MB when installed fresh and the user has experience.

Versus Win98 install being 200GB when installed fresh and the user being new to computers LOL!!! damn rat bastards Microshaft


200GB  :rotfl:


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 15, 2004, 08:59:34 AM
Windows size calculator:
partition_size/2

And that's it, windows will fill you'r hdd with random junk (see my previous post on .tmp files i nthe windows folder, even though they claim to be 0 byte they take 4kb on my hdd (cluster size) :evil: )

The number of security holes can be found by taking the core version number: 4.10.2222 (w98 SE)
Remove the dots: 4'102'222
Divide by 100 and round up: 4'102

And there ya go. Works everytime.

Also, the countdown timers in Win work on the following principle:
Each second: display a new random number in the range of n to 0 seconds, where n is calculated by taking the file size and divide it with a number which may or may not be the hdd transfer rate (depends on the hdd type, and version of windows)


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 15, 2004, 11:23:12 AM
Z!re you are wrong about the security holes. No microsoft product has security holes. It has gaping holes! The number of wholes can be calculated as follows:

No.of security holes(n) = (Lifetime of the product in days) ^ 10

 :wink:


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: SJ Zero on February 15, 2004, 12:20:49 PM
Quote from: "adosorken"
As morally wrong as the whole thing is, one thing people tend to forget is that business is business. It would be difficult to bring libel charges against Microsoft and SCO in tihs case, simply because one of the key factors of open source isn't profit, so under libel laws, no one's being hurt. If Linux was represented by a profitable company, Microsoft and SCO would be hit with libel charges so fast their heads would spin. Really sucks that nothing can be done about it, but that's one of the risks of being not-for-profit.


IBM is being sued for billions of dollars. Several other companies have had to bring amnesty plans into effect.


Let the suits have at 'er!


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 15, 2004, 02:35:24 PM
:rotfl:


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Plasma on February 15, 2004, 02:47:50 PM
Quote from: "Toonski"
Source code is not small. I'm sure it includes comments, but chew on this: QB1.1 is less than a megabyte, but it's source code on my computer is over 30 megabytes. Windows is over a gigabyte on my computer.

Do you have a different version of the source or something? Because the version I have is about 21mb unzipped. Just wondering...


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 15, 2004, 02:49:04 PM
wtf are the m$ developers doing? Writing essays for each of the lines of code?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: oracle on February 15, 2004, 07:06:47 PM
Quote from: "Z!re"
Windows source got leaked, someone who had the source through MS's "open source" thingy leaked it. The MS Open Source thingy is: MS gave a few companies the exclusive rights to have windows code, it is copyrighted and they are not allowed to distribute it. But someone did anyways.


Note: The open source thing gives some countries' governments access to the source also, NZ got it last year.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 15, 2004, 07:26:16 PM
If anything, this means that Microsoft's Shared Source Initiative might see a major plunge and many colleges might lose Microsoft's funding. A cynic might agree that these are not such bad losses, but realistically, the loss of these two factors could devastate colleges which rely on these things. However, this is just educated speculation. Neither could happen. We'll just have to wait and see.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 16, 2004, 12:40:47 PM
I appreciate M$ just for all the charity they are doing. But they are   scum and they favor certain countries. I dont want to bring up this issue =(.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 16, 2004, 01:41:57 PM
C'mon, if you had $60 billion would you donate it equally among the two different countries having a war? No, because that makes no sense.
I appreciate MS for the software they produce.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 17, 2004, 11:39:55 AM
One thing though: don't think that Microsoft does all that charity out of the goodness of their hearts. Although it may be partially true, the deciding factor is tax cuts. If Microsoft wasn't to pay out all kinds of money in charity, taxes would be FAR higher for the company. FAR higher. It's a tax move. Again, it's smart business. Regardless of the intention, many people benefit, and that makes it a very good thing, whether their intentions are noble or not.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 17, 2004, 11:41:45 AM
Of course. And also, if they didn't give charity, then they'd have a lot more people hating them.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 17, 2004, 11:44:14 AM
The more well-known you are, the more people that hate you. Basic human psychology. :D


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Agamemnus on February 17, 2004, 01:22:28 PM
Wrong!

Who can honestly say a bad thing about the Pope?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 17, 2004, 04:46:48 PM
Nek:  :rotfl:


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: oracle on February 17, 2004, 06:50:54 PM
Quote from: "Agamemnus"
Wrong!


Who can honestly say a bad thing about the Pope?


I could say many bad things about the pope... though in the end they'd probably be more directed at the religeon than the man...


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Z!re on February 17, 2004, 06:59:03 PM
Quote from: "Agamemnus"
Wrong!

Who can honestly say a bad thing about the Pope?
He looks ugly
And he's old
He drools
And he prolly stink too :roll:  :lol:


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: toonski84 on February 17, 2004, 07:07:17 PM
Charity is deducted penny for penny from taxes, but you still have to give it away.  Nobody gives to charity *because* of tax reasons.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 17, 2004, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: "toonski84"
Charity is deducted penny for penny from taxes, but you still have to give it away.  Nobody gives to charity *because* of tax reasons.


uh huh....from the goodness of their heart *cough* :roll:


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: red_Marvin on February 17, 2004, 08:02:56 PM
Quote from: "toonski84"
Charity is deducted penny for penny from taxes, but you still have to give it away.  Nobody gives to charity *because* of tax reasons.


If (lessened (sp?) tax + charity) < (normal tax) then yes = TRUE :P

I don't know if so is the case though...


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 17, 2004, 08:31:37 PM
Wow - this is funny that we're talking about this tax stuff, because I was just offered a web design job. I refused, because it takes an advantage of a tax-deduction money-go-round payment. No thanks.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 17, 2004, 11:10:31 PM
Quote from: "Zack"
Wow - this is funny that we're talking about this tax stuff, because I was just offered a web design job. I refused, because it takes an advantage of a tax-deduction money-go-round payment. No thanks.


I'm not sure what you are trying to say with this? And if you dont want the job i'll take it ;)


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Agamemnus on February 17, 2004, 11:17:24 PM
No, I'll take it...

*throws Rhiannon off a ship*

*whistles*

-------------------------

I think it would be awfully charitable of the US government to allow people to give away to charity like that.

Here's a nice thought, if it were true:

1) Make a charity.
2) Give to that charity.
3) Have that charity give you the money for some reason.. IE your son gets a scholarship from it..


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 17, 2004, 11:38:09 PM
Quote from: "Rhiannon"
Quote from: "Zack"
Wow - this is funny that we're talking about this tax stuff, because I was just offered a web design job. I refused, because it takes an advantage of a tax-deduction money-go-round payment. No thanks.


I'm not sure what you are trying to say with this? And if you dont want the job i'll take it ;)

Do you want to support the Conservative Party of Canada? I don't, so that's why I refused.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 18, 2004, 01:16:11 AM
I dont live so it doesnt matter to me, i'm at the other end of the hemisphere. ;)


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 18, 2004, 10:28:42 AM
Quote from: "Zack"
Wow - this is funny that we're talking about this tax stuff, because I was just offered a web design job. I refused, because it takes an advantage of a tax-deduction money-go-round payment. No thanks.

Quote from: "Zack"
Do you want to support the Conservative Party of Canada? I don't, so that's why I refused.

Make up your mind...which reason was it?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 18, 2004, 10:49:50 AM
Both - they are both interelated. The conservative party would get a donation, and then my dad would get a tax deduction, and then the party would hand over money to me, while meanwhile they pay nothing. See?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 18, 2004, 12:43:11 PM
And...you're opposed to this...why?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 18, 2004, 02:00:09 PM
:roll:  :roll:

Zacks confused


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 18, 2004, 03:45:22 PM
Becaaaaause...they would pay absolutely nothing for the web design, when it comes around. So they get a website for free (and I don't want them to have a website, anyway), in the end.
Never mind, already...I've referred them to Josiah...


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 18, 2004, 05:30:40 PM
should have taken the job and get your money back, besides, next time refer them to me :P


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 18, 2004, 06:00:01 PM
I think they were looking for someone local. :P
And this guy only called me because he is my older brother's friend...
Now, back on topic...


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 19, 2004, 06:24:41 AM
You're dumb. You could have had some cash in hand but now you're with nothing.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 19, 2004, 11:12:16 AM
Thanks for that little insult.
Say, TBBQ, are you active in politics? I mean, do you stand strongly on your opinion when it comes to voting? I can't vote, but I certainly care. I don't support the Conservatives. Making them a website (and having them in the end pay absolutely nothing for it) all comes to more support for them.
Don't call a person stupid or dumb like that, just because you care more about money than you do about who runs your country.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 19, 2004, 11:15:18 AM
Well unlike you i am more practical. If someones offering me $5 for some work I will do it. I dont care that in the end it may be free for him. All I know is that at the end of the day I will have $5 extra in my pocket.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 19, 2004, 11:23:46 AM
And in the end, the government could change, and my life would be affected. I don't want it to be affected in that certain way.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 19, 2004, 11:25:27 AM
How did the government come into the picture o.O?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 19, 2004, 11:26:58 AM
Have you even been reading my posts? I said "Conservative Party of Canada". That's a political party. The election is coming up.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 19, 2004, 11:28:44 AM
Whatever...all politicians are scum.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: SJ Zero on February 19, 2004, 03:55:07 PM
Quote from: "Agamemnus"
Wrong!

Who can honestly say a bad thing about the Pope?


Don't know much about the horrible, evil Roman Catholic church, do you? Well.... Lets just say you might want to stand with your back to the wall next time you go in for communion or whatever it is roman catholics do to remind themselves that they're all stupid sinbags and their god should wipe them off the face of the earth... :P

And he's the leader. Funny, that.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: SJ Zero on February 19, 2004, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: "Zack"
Have you even been reading my posts? I said "Conservative Party of Canada". That's a political party. The election is coming up.

What problems do you have with the conservative party of canada? I mean, they're not my first choice (mostly because they'd probably put a piece of human trash like mulroney in power), but what's got you so mad you won't even accept cash for a job for them that'll get done anyway if you don't?

(I was very much hoping Harris would decide to get in. I'd've voted for that guy in a second. He did things for ontario that the bleeding hard leeches(because the liberals have jobs) hated, and brought our province into years of prosperity. The only people who compained are the teachers, and to be frank, now that they have money, they've spent it on things like signs and colloseums(that's right, after all the bitching, we got a new auditorium with the money that could've gone to books! Blast that Mike Harris! We could have had this even SOONER!!!) and the meantime people now pay far less tax than in many parts of the country while actually paying back the deficit.)


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 19, 2004, 04:06:57 PM
No offense to the pope or any roman catholic. But I believe that in old age a person should give up his worldly desires and devote himself to god in the true sense.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 19, 2004, 04:20:28 PM
I don't support *any* of the parties, except for the Green Party. If the Liberals or NDP asked me for a website, I'd say no even faster.
(but now I have a different web design job, from someone else. :D )


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 19, 2004, 04:21:57 PM
Could we please stop discussing political shit and get back to M$ shit?


Title: Ms SUCKS!!! Linux will rule the computer world!
Post by: mikedoise on February 20, 2004, 03:33:57 PM
Microsoft is screwed over and they know it. First, Microsoft has their code leaked and yes it is the full code go to iexbeta.com for a lot of articles on it. Second, Microsoft may loose their windows trademark in the first week of march. That does not look to great for them. Third yes Microsoft did steal to get where they are today and I am not talking legally zack. In the beginning of Microsoft, Bill and the rest of his goons stole source from other companies to make their windows product. Fourth, there are better linux products out there to fit all desktop needs now. there is lindows which provides more software to click-n-run users than any other. Lycoris is also out. it provides the best windows solution by providing users wine and winex for all windows programs to work. You also can get a copy of windows 98 or ME to install over Lindows how can you beat that!!!? I think all linux needs now is just a good tv advertising company to put them on the air like IBM is doing now. Also as far as that goes, SCO is sueing all these linux distributers but why are they not sueing Lindows hmmmm why do they have a partnership with Lindows to not sue them but Microsoft feels it has the need to sue them? kind of odd as far as I can tell.

Also, the pope sucks because he represents a religion that does not follow the exact teachings of the book they study.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 20, 2004, 03:44:52 PM
Yes, yet again, more spamming about Lindows.
And I have two words for ya about MS stealing: prove it.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 20, 2004, 03:53:55 PM
Zack, you know very few things about how the real world works. You're still what? 12? You have a long way to go. Mike is absolutely right about M$. I have seen a documentary about foundation of microsoft.

I remember amiga, their only downfall was they were way ahead of their time. people were ignorant and they didnt advertise.

Mike, is there a free download for lycoris?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: LooseCaboose on February 20, 2004, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: "mikedoise"

Microsoft is screwed over and they know it.


I dont think that Microsoft are gonna be screwed over by this. Other companies have had major source code leaks and not been screwed over.

Quote from: "mikedoise"

Microsoft has their code leaked and yes it is the full code go to iexbeta.com for a lot of articles on it.


It isnt the full source, it is parts of the source code for Windows 2000 and WindowsNT.

Quote from: "mikedoise"

there is lindows which provides more software to click-n-run users than any other.


Actually there is lind---s (pronounced Lindash) after Microsoft won a ceast and desist against Lindows providing a competing product and infringing on the name Windows.

Quote from: "mikedoise"

Fourth, there are better linux products out there to fit all desktop needs now.


Unfortunately, Linux does not yet fit all desktop needs. Linux excels as a server, but its desktop market has a long way to go yet. Linux still doesnt offer the wealth of applications available to Windows systems, it still lacks a large amount of user friendlyness and above all it lacks familarity to most users.

Quote from: "mikedoise"

it provides the best windows solution by providing users wine and winex for all windows programs to work.


Wine does not allow you to flawless run all Windows programs, some windows programs will run with a few bugs in Wine, while others (such as the latest versions of Internet Explorer) will not run at all.

Quote from: "mikedoise"

SCO is sueing all these linux distributers but why are they not sueing Lindows


The first part of SCO's case is against the 2.4 Linux kernel (and therefore all distributions which use the 2.4 kernel) containing code that has been illegally copied from the SCO Unix kernel. The second part of SCO's case is against IBM providing open sourced code for the Linux kernel based on derivative works of AIX which is licesened under SCO's UNIX technology.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 20, 2004, 03:58:01 PM
He may be right, and I'm not saying he isn't. People hate Microsoft because it's natural: millions, possibly a billion people use their products. It is the largest company in the world. If, say, DVD Player company X was that large, there would be a group of people hating them, too.
But my point still stands: prove any illegal activity that Microsoft (as a company, not during Bill Gates' dreams) conducted. Point me to an article that lists its sources, and doesn't reside in some open-source freak scr1pt k1ddi3 website.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 20, 2004, 04:07:03 PM
wine and winex are supposed to be used to run simple applications. So complex applications like AutoCAD wont run. Also, it is a resource hog. You'll need a very lean machine for it to run smoothly.

Since 98% of the home users are using Microsoft products, most applications are coded for it. But for a home user whatever products that Linux offers are sufficient. For example, I built a Redhat Linux 9 system from scratch for my uncle. All he needs is:
1. An office suite (Open office)
2, Internet access(KPPP and wealth of other connections are supported)
3. A few games to kill time(plenty of them are around)
4. Multimedia apps(xmms)

Optionally he may want to burn CDs. I didnt need to install new apps as the built in apps were great. Only problem is that I needed to update them.

IMO the only thing that sucks about the linux desktop is installation of programs and configuring the system. But we are seeing apps like YAST coming up.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 20, 2004, 04:58:49 PM
As I was explaining on MSN...when Linux gets something as easy to use as VB6, I'll gladly jump ship. Until then (and no, glade dont cut it either :P ), I'm with Windows. :D


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 20, 2004, 05:14:59 PM
Quote from: "Zack"
And I have two words for ya about MS stealing: prove it.


ok.


Read the news:

Internet Explorer vs. Netscape Navigator:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/01/22/netscape/index.html
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,80925,00.asp

Burst's technology and Sun Java stolen
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/09/30/microsoft.burst.ap/

Patent violations:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/industry/03/27/ms.patent.suit.idg/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9812/16/mousesuit.idg/index.html
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,9598,00.asp
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,114669,00.asp
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,114506,00.asp
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,56083,00.asp
http://news.com.com/2100-1023_3-5141318.html?tag=st_rn


Antitrust violations and illegal muscling:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/02/19/beos/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/02/19/beos/index.html
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,77163,00.asp
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,5433,00.asp

More theft:
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,108178,00.asp
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,9043,00.asp

Must be nice to be a lawyer for MS, they're never out of work.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 20, 2004, 06:08:57 PM
:o  Don't have time to read all of those now, but I will when I get the time.
You do your research well, Rhia! I stand corrected re the part about illegal activity. But I still don't support MS-bashing.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 20, 2004, 06:27:33 PM
it's not bashing when it's the truth ;)


Title: actually...
Post by: mikedoise on February 20, 2004, 06:41:34 PM
Linux does have a language easier than vb6 and allmost just as powerful called TCL/TK www.scriptics.com and www.activestate.com you can also get a lot of third party applications for it like visual tcl to help you create visual applications.

Amiga was cool.

WineX are made to play the most complex of games counter strike is now playable so is warcraft 3 and all of those games I would say a lot of shooters like unreal and quake work but they allready have versions for linux so it doesn't really matter.

Lycoris desktop/lx comes with all of these features and the newest version of Wine has the source code to Codeweavers office which allows users to run Microsoft office on linux.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: oracle on February 20, 2004, 07:20:03 PM
This really makes me wonder...

(this is not a real quote, but what mike doise is saying)
Quote from: "mikedoise"
M$ windows sucks!!!1!!1!!


Quote from: "mikedoise"
...but you can run wine so you can run windows stuff!11! how cool!!1!!11!


So you hate windows, but when you have linux you try your hardest to run windows on it? That's just stupid. Why not just partition? I'm sure there's an ubercool kicka$$ lindows partitioning system out there ripped from debian or slackware...


Title: for one thing
Post by: mikedoise on February 20, 2004, 07:26:51 PM
dual booting sucks why not do it all from one os   still some windows software is needed for advanced hardware many software companies do not support linux like jasc or ulead so wine and winex are still needed or win4lin to give the same luxeries as windows users.


Title: Re: for one thing
Post by: oracle on February 20, 2004, 07:48:26 PM
Quote from: "mikedoise"
dual booting sucks why not do it all from one os   still some windows software is needed for advanced hardware many software companies do not support linux like jasc or ulead so wine and winex are still needed or win4lin to give the same luxeries as windows users.


Why does dual booting suck? Dual booting gives me 100% compatibility with windows and linux. If I want linux, I boot linux. If I want windows, it's not hard to reboot. Running windows (which from your point of view so obviously sucks it shouldn't exist) through linux is gonna make it seem even more unstable, and thus more criticism will be heaped on it for bugs that are not its fault, but WINEs.


Title: the probs with dual booting
Post by: mikedoise on February 20, 2004, 07:58:19 PM
suppose you have software that can do somethings but not all on tyour linux parititon and then you have the sotware that can do the rest of what you need on your windows partition. now suppose you don't have any money to buy something to inter-connect or you do not have the means of downloading something to inter-connect the two partitions together to get your information from. sure you can get to ntfs via linux but you can't write to it very well and windows can't even read reiserfs or ext3 or xfs so how do you avoid all of themes problems? start making solutions where you don't have to rely on rutning your power off or rebooting and changeing to a whole new os when once you are done you just go to turn off or reboot and change back. the process gets old if you are wanting the best of both worlds so to speak. For instance, I am a windows developer and a linux developer. I would rather be able to write my code in one os and still be in the same os but test it in a windows enverionment instead of having to make arrangements for the code to be on my windows partition then reboot to a windows-native environment just to test my code and go back. Also, if I have software that is good in Linux and some that is also good in Windows that involves the same project I would rather be able to run them all from the same OS instead of changeing over to something else and having to keep going back and forth.


Title: Re: the probs with dual booting
Post by: oracle on February 20, 2004, 08:02:47 PM
Well, that may be OK, but then you're developing for WINE+WINDOWS, not Windows. Thus your code will always be worse than someone who codes in windows for windows. Besides, why are you writing code for Windows in Linux?????


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 20, 2004, 08:25:44 PM
so come to a happy medium and use fat32


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: SJ Zero on February 20, 2004, 10:20:09 PM
Quote from: "Zack"
Yes, yet again, more spamming about Lindows.
And I have two words for ya about MS stealing: prove it.


Why? The statute of limitations expired, and they freely admit that they coded MS Basic for the altair using code printoffs they stold from DEC back when they were in college.

Also, they lost the case against Stacker so many years ago, which accused that they tried to steal stacker and put it in dos 6.2. There's a reason why drivespace came out in 6.22, the only change made in that version.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 21, 2004, 03:43:43 PM
Quote
So you hate windows, but when you have linux you try your hardest to run windows on it?


Oracle, wine and winex exist for one reason only which is that it makes the transition from Windows to Linux easier. I too am currently using Linux as my desktop OS. But I am not using Wine or WineX since I like the Linux ports/equivalent programs of the M$ for Linux =).


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 21, 2004, 06:19:50 PM
nEdit, after about 30 minutes of configuraing, makes a pretty decent Notepad clone.

:P


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 22, 2004, 12:19:45 AM
/me now figures out that he's out of date...
Find me one business that never stole or did any illegal activity to gain popularily/sell more products.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 22, 2004, 01:35:37 AM
Quote from: "Zack"
/me now figures out that he's out of date...
Find me one business that never stole or did any illegal activity to gain popularily/sell more products.


I think that is a little offensive to those who own businesses, like me, and have never stole or cheated customers. There are a lot of honest businesses. Just cuz MS is an ass and likes to lie and cheat doesnt mean everyone else is like this. And since when is it ok to do something just becuz "everyone else does it"? This is a child's mentality.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Diroga on February 22, 2004, 02:36:20 AM
Mac and Linux are open soure right? so what the problem with windows being open source?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: oracle on February 22, 2004, 05:46:19 AM
^^^^ ?????

Microsoft sells windows, that's why...


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Zack on February 22, 2004, 11:41:14 AM
Mac? Open source? Really?
Linux? Yeah.
Like Oracle said. Precisely. And if they're open source, and someone can gain exploit information from it, it could be bye-bye to all the servers that use Windows NT/2000.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 22, 2004, 02:30:19 PM
Quote from: "Zack"
Mac? Open source? Really?
Linux? Yeah.
Like Oracle said. Precisely. And if they're open source, and someone can gain exploit information from it, it could be bye-bye to all the servers that use Windows NT/2000.


MacOS has been open source since 1999, since the Darwin project where they based the OS on Unix (very smart). Linux has been open source for decades, and Unix since the 60s. There still isnt a major exploit out there that can affect servers in a mass form as windows exploits do. Windows not being open source hasnt stopped people from exploiting the hell out of windows. And whoever is using NT or 2k as a webserver should be taken out and beaten.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 22, 2004, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: "Zack"
Mac? Open source? Really?
Linux? Yeah.
Like Oracle said. Precisely. And if they're open source, and someone can gain exploit information from it, it could be bye-bye to all the servers that use Windows NT/2000.


Hehe, Linux has been always open source but the servers that run off it are extremely secure. Where as the Windows source code has been heavily guarded my M$ but they havent been able to secure their own machines. I wonder why  8)

Quote
And whoever is using NT or 2k as a webserver should be taken out and beaten.

Rhia, you have really strong opinions  :rotfl:  :rotfl:


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 22, 2004, 04:07:52 PM
i'm a headstrong woman. I say what i mean.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 22, 2004, 04:10:27 PM
Fine fine. But why are you against people using 2K or NT as webservers?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 22, 2004, 04:12:39 PM
uhh.....let's see now.....more suspectable to exploits, virus infections, intrusions, all reasons for me to run when i see a windows server. And after being on IRC and seeing thousands upon thousands of bots used for warez and DDOS attacks, I really dont want to have precious info at the disposition of someone that can hack into the machine with a rootkit.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 22, 2004, 04:18:44 PM
Couldnt have worded it better myself =). So are you just anti NT/2K or pro Linux as well?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: Rhiannon on February 22, 2004, 04:20:39 PM
Nix on my servers, and windows on my desktop till i find a better one.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 22, 2004, 04:24:20 PM
For desktop, windows R |_| |_ 3 Z
For server, Linux.

But recently I've come across Lycoris. Its latest version is looking very promising. I havent used it though. But I want to try it. Currenly, I am using a Linux desktop =) and its cool.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: oracle on February 22, 2004, 06:56:15 PM
I get along fine with KDE 3.1.5 (I also whacked 256MB more mem in my box). I can't print, but if I could I would be churning out documents with AbiWord. If I can, I do web development in quanta, and browse with firebird, learn java, upload with gFTP, play Dungeons with telnet... all for free, and very secure. In fact, the only reason I boot into windows these days is to prog in QB or test programs people have uploaded to QBNZ.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: adosorken on February 22, 2004, 08:41:27 PM
For me, Linux on the desktop ended up being just that..."cool". Gnome 2 looked great. :) But after the "cool" wore off, I was stuck with a subpar OS with very little application support, and virtually NO support for hardcore BASIC programmers. I switched to KDE for a faster desktop, since Gnome was SO bloody slow. But after about a week of fighting with even the simplest of applications, I came to realize that it just wasn't the OS for an "instant gratification" kind of computer user like myself. So, I backed up some files (had to switch CDRW drives, because the one I was using at the time wasn't recognized....another tremendous annoyance) and reinstalled Windows. Never looked back either.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 23, 2004, 02:31:48 PM
Nek, so you had a bad experience. Its ok. But once you get the hang of it, its a piece of cake =).

Oracle, why cant you print? Linux has so many print services. IMO CUPS is the best and the simplest. I would prefer star office over abiword. Also, I've noticed that M$ puts too many features in their apps. For example I use hardly 5% of the features in microsoft word =(.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: oracle on February 23, 2004, 05:05:44 PM
I have cups, but haven't managed to get it working with my HP Deskjet 610C. Do you know how you use CUPS to do this? (I'm still pretty new to a lot of linux stuff).


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 23, 2004, 05:21:04 PM
Sure, its quite simple. I am assuming you are using KDE.

1. Enable Kudzu
2. Restart your OS while your printer is turned on
3. Kudzu will automatically detect and install it.
4. Login as root.
5. Open KMenu -> System Settings -> Printing. Click New
6. It will ask you a bunch of questions like the name of the printer, description, the device(lp0), manufacturer, model etc...
7. Now open the control centre. Click peripherals -> printers -> "HP Deskjet 610"(whatever name you assigned) -> There you can select a bunch of printing systems to use with it eg. CUPS, LPR etc... and also set properties, quotas, etc...

Quite simple =). It works for my Redhat 9 system. If you want to do it from the command line then it will really depend on which distro you're using since every distro stores config/other files with different names and in different locations =P.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: oracle on February 23, 2004, 05:23:55 PM
Thanks a lot! D/Ling and installing kudzu now...

... do I have to restart my computer, or just the X-server?


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 23, 2004, 05:32:18 PM
you could technically start kudzu from a console but i dont recommend it. Its better you activate it and then when the system boots up it will say "Check for new hardware", detect, install and update your /etc/fstab config fie


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: oracle on February 23, 2004, 06:08:29 PM
It works, thanks!!!!

Now, the other thing: sound...


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 23, 2004, 06:10:19 PM
what about it?

*sleepy, gotta have some sleep :wink:*


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: oracle on February 24, 2004, 12:02:40 AM
I apt-getted alsa, but it won't start, saying alsa-modules aren't installed... Perhaps there's a different way to set up sound? I'm not sure what sorta sound card I have, if there was something that could automatically detect it that'd be good :)


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on February 24, 2004, 08:07:43 AM
Oracle could you tell me which distro are you using and whats your kernel version and KDE version?

Does Windows detect your sound card?

BTW Kudzu is supposed to autodetect your hardware.


Title: Possible Windows source code leak
Post by: oracle on February 24, 2004, 07:29:27 PM
Debian/GNU Linux 2.4

KDE 3.1.5

Windows plays sound find. Pr'raps I should get the soundcard details from windows...

I apt-get installed kudzu, but to be quite honest, nothing happened on bootup with the printer. I just went into the printer menu and changed the stuff you said, and it worked...