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General => Art & Music => Topic started by: Rokkuman on December 13, 2003, 08:19:08 PM



Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 13, 2003, 08:19:08 PM
I practiced my art by attempting to draw Chun Li. Critiques please.

(http://68.10.114.221:81/chunli3.gif)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Mech1031 on December 13, 2003, 10:12:53 PM
Es Bueno.  What ever happened to cobra anyway?


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 13, 2003, 11:11:52 PM
Well, actually. I'm practicing this sprite so I can get restarted on it. But memory problems began to rear it's ugly head.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 14, 2003, 04:30:08 AM
You gotta practice more ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 14, 2003, 01:22:54 PM
Ok, I got some critiques from some other sites. Here's the latest.

(http://68.10.114.221:81/chun6.gif)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Neo on December 15, 2003, 06:43:08 AM
Tip: use dithering.
Tip: don't use gradients a very lot.
Tip: don't fill large blocks with just one color.

Perhaps this may help you on your way ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 15, 2003, 08:11:19 AM
Quote from: "Rockuman"
Ok, I got some critiques from some other sites. Here's the latest.

(http://68.10.114.221:81/chun6.gif)


Make her look like a girl =P


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 15, 2003, 08:41:28 AM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Quote from: "Rockuman"
Ok, I got some critiques from some other sites. Here's the latest.

(http://68.10.114.221:81/chun6.gif)


Make her look like a girl =P


...I'm never asking for a critique at this site again...


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 15, 2003, 08:57:34 AM
Hehe. You asked for it ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Neo on December 15, 2003, 09:03:14 AM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Make her look like a girl =P

Ouf, I think that was a little too *impacting* for Rockuman. But she looks like a girl already, doesn't she? So what's the point? ;)

Quote from: "Rockuman"
...I'm never asking for a critique at this site again...

Don't mind ;) Just neglect and only take the relevant critiques ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 15, 2003, 09:05:20 AM
Quote from: "Neo"
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Make her look like a girl =P

Ouf, I think that was a little too *impacting* for Rockuman. But she looks like a girl already, doesn't she? So what's the point? ;)


Not to me. she doesnt look like a girl =P


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 15, 2003, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Quote from: "Neo"
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Make her look like a girl =P

Ouf, I think that was a little too *impacting* for Rockuman. But she looks like a girl already, doesn't she? So what's the point? ;)


Not to me. she doesnt look like a girl =P


Well... you're not going to tell me it looks like a man are you? =)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 15, 2003, 01:23:40 PM
Quote from: "Rockuman"
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Quote from: "Neo"
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Make her look like a girl =P

Ouf, I think that was a little too *impacting* for Rockuman. But she looks like a girl already, doesn't she? So what's the point? ;)


Not to me. she doesnt look like a girl =P


Well... you're not going to tell me it looks like a man are you? =)


Nope I wont ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: toonski84 on December 15, 2003, 01:48:35 PM
it's a tiny sprite.  I dont see how you could make it not looks like a irl if her head's 5 pixels tall and she's wearing a dress.  Besides, the man asked for some critique and that's lousy critique.  okay:

1) dont use dithering.  too small a sprite.
2) watch out for pillow shading
3) shoulders are a bit too wide
4) legs dont seem to protrude from body.  
5) not enough contrast in colors for a colored border.

I guess it's mostly anatomy.  Try reducing an actual Chun Li sprite and using that for reference.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 15, 2003, 03:42:29 PM
Well  then the idea of using dithering sucked =P. And secondly I dont understand why you guyz insist on using the sucky 320x200 8bpp mode. Why not use high rez like 640x480 or 800x600? Its better and you could have dithering then ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: wildcard on December 15, 2003, 03:56:49 PM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
And secondly I dont understand why you guyz insist on using the sucky 320x200 8bpp mode. Why not use high rez like 640x480 or 800x600? Its better and you could have dithering then ;)


Personally I prefer 320x200. Many also, and not only for the retro look   :lol:


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Shogun on December 15, 2003, 04:34:52 PM
really nice sprite :)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: toonski84 on December 16, 2003, 12:27:16 AM
Because double the resolution means the sprite takes twice as long to draw.  Most fighting games are either made with re-used sprites from old 320x240 games or actually done on old hardware such as the neogeo which only supports 320x240.  I think the only (popular) hi-res 2d fighting game I know of is the Guilty Gear series...


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Plasma on December 16, 2003, 01:04:30 AM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Well  then the idea of using dithering sucked =P. And secondly I dont understand why you guyz insist on using the sucky 320x200 8bpp mode. Why not use high rez like 640x480 or 800x600? Its better and you could have dithering then ;)


Because then people with ATI cards can't play your game. And those who can play the game will still see your crappy sprites, except now they will be twice as detailed...


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 16, 2003, 02:35:24 AM
Quote from: "Plasma"
...and those who can play the game will still see your crappy sprites, except now they will be twice as detailed...


Ouch! thats gotta hurt =P


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Plasma on December 16, 2003, 03:07:34 AM
that's why people don't do hi-res pixel art...


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 16, 2003, 01:03:05 PM
Quote from: "toonski84"
it's a tiny sprite.  I dont see how you could make it not looks like a irl if her head's 5 pixels tall and she's wearing a dress.  Besides, the man asked for some critique and that's lousy critique.  okay:

1) dont use dithering.  too small a sprite.


Gotcha..

Quote

2) watch out for pillow shading


What's pillow shading?

Quote

3) shoulders are a bit too wide


I'll work on that.

Quote

4) legs dont seem to protrude from body.  


How so? I started the sprite off with a skeleton. The legs have no choice BUT to protrude from the body. It seems to do so anyway for me. Any idea how to fix?

Quote

5) not enough contrast in colors for a colored border.


Well, I didn't really put too much focus into the border, but yeah, I can add some contrast.

Quote

I guess it's mostly anatomy.  Try reducing an actual Chun Li sprite and using that for reference.

Okie dokie.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: toonski84 on December 16, 2003, 01:43:13 PM
pillow shading is shading by just padding colors.  This is someting a lot of people have problems with.  Look at the legs.  Instead of just doing a gradient inwards, make it face the light source, and dont only shade on the legs.

But overall it's all right.  Go with what you can pump out for a game, and work on the quality later :D


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 17, 2003, 12:23:42 PM
Ok., as soon as somebody fixes helps me fix my sprite editor problem, I'll get to work on that...

But how the heck do I shade her arms and stuff? They're 3 pixels wide, and two of them are taken over by the outline (which I am trying to make work with the sprite as well).

The legs,and her shoulders were the only things I was able to shade. I'm trying to fit something in the body though...


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: toonski84 on December 17, 2003, 03:10:38 PM
Well, really small things are hard to shade, but you can sometimes get around that by shading the border.  This is some Capcom does a little in their selout (http://zoggles.dyndns.org/zoggles/asp/tutorials.asp?tut=8) style and snk does a lot in their seemingly borderless style.

Here, I tried to address a few of the flaws by re-coloring the sprite myself.  I'm not the best pixeler in the world, but I made some hopefully significant changes to it.  First off, there's a lot more contrast.  You used a ton of shades for little, subtle things that are more or less not discernable.  

Secondly, the shading.  I used a weak, pitiful imitation of selout on her legs, and used the extra space inside to try and pathetically attempt to address a light source (did I mention I'm not the best pixeler in the world? :D)  For the rest it's pretty much a combination of the two, but color selection and shading can really be as more important than the actual outline.

(http://www.betterwebber.com/test2/chunli.gif)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 17, 2003, 09:35:38 PM
Oh my... You took my sprite and made it beautiful!

Here's my attempt at this style...

(http://68.10.114.221:81/chun9.gif)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: toonski84 on December 18, 2003, 12:38:53 AM
coo.  Good luck with your game then :D


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 18, 2003, 10:27:43 AM
Hmm.. Now the sprite seems much cooler =P(I mean the one toonski posted)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Neo on December 18, 2003, 10:34:08 AM
See, a limited amount of colors can produce some good textures (like Na Than's e.g. and this one of course) ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 18, 2003, 12:45:37 PM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Hmm.. Now the sprite seems much cooler =P(I mean the one toonski posted)


Don't ever post in this thread again.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 18, 2003, 12:47:11 PM
Why?


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: na_th_an on December 18, 2003, 01:21:50 PM
Because nonsense, unmercyful, unfocused and non constructive criticism hurts and it isn't even funny. If you wanna post here, post on topic. He wanted constructive criticism, and you are spamming the whole thread with pointless remarks. If you're trying to be funny don't go that way 'cause it doesn't work. You are dismissing this guy's hard work, and that's not respectable nor even admisible, even if you are kidding.

So post if you have some intelligent critique ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: toonski84 on December 18, 2003, 02:07:00 PM
neo:  In the actual street fighter alpha games, chun li, along with every other character, only used 16 colors (15 + transparent).  They get around this by having the skin shades mix in with the brown hair, and the white shades fade into blue as they get dark so they can cross over the palette with the blue dress.  Another cool trick is to use the lightest skin shade for the whites of the eye, but since it's surrounded by dark shades, it looks white.

bigbasicq, I know you're kidding, but it's sort of crossing a border.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 18, 2003, 04:51:39 PM
Well, TBBQ. It's just that "It doesn't look like a girl." after I've just said  "It's Chun Li" is a pretty strong critique. And it would be a lot better if you would at least back that up with why it looks like a man. That's all I ask...

I fixed up on the arm, enlarged her tabbard, and smoothed her left leg more...

(http://68.10.114.221:81/chun10.gif)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Plasma on December 18, 2003, 04:57:37 PM
Don't take it personally man. I didn't know who "Chun Li" was either, and it's not exactly obvious it's a woman's name.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 18, 2003, 05:04:54 PM
Well, I can understand if you've never heard of the character...

TBBQ: Do you know who Chun Li is?


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: oracle on December 18, 2003, 08:39:40 PM
I'm useless at art, but perhaps the head needs to be... "taller"? (ie, elongate it vertically?)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 19, 2003, 05:03:46 PM
Nathan: Dont you think you are being a bit harsh? The man asked for criticism and thats what he got. Dont always expect everyone to appreciate your work.
His sprite looks OK to me. But I didnt feel it looked too distinguishable. Truly speaking if I just glance at it I cant even make out what it is. Its only when you look at it quite carefully does it strike you that its a character.

Rockuman:
I know who Chun Li is.
- Just *look* at the boots or whatever you have on her. They are way way out of proportion.
- Look at her robe, its too long. It almost reaches her feet.
- Her hair. I dont get it.

If you cant deal with criticism then I think you shouldnt ask for it. This is directed more to nathan than Rockuman. I feel you over-reacted nath.

Here are some of the sprites I found on the internet which *look* more feminine and you dont need to strain your eyes to find out what exactly is that little picture.

(http://vectec.net/basix/img/ch1.gif)
(http://vectec.net/basix/img/ch2.gif)
(http://vectec.net/basix/img/ch3.gif)
(http://vectec.net/basix/img/bl1.gif)

The last one is Blaze


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on December 19, 2003, 05:16:54 PM
I didn't use those sprites as a base though.
There are definitely differences between my sprite (I'm starting to see more and more), and the one I'm about to show, but I at least feel it's distinguishable. And many people have been able to tell who it is...

(http://68.10.114.221:81/swiftkick/charimages/chunli-svcstance.gif)
(http://68.10.114.221:81/chun10.gif)

So yes, her tabbard does reach her feet.

Anyway TBBQ, thank you this time for giving an actual critique. At least I know what to fix this time. Before, all I could do was look at your sentence "She doesn't look like a girl."


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: na_th_an on December 19, 2003, 10:34:17 PM
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Nathan: Dont you think you are being a bit harsh? The man asked for criticism and thats what he got. Dont always expect everyone to appreciate your work.


There are two kinds of criticism. The worthy and the unworthy. The constructive criticism and the destructive criticism. Constructive criticism: take toonski's post. He told him what he thought that had to be worked on and gave him some useful hints. Destructive criticism: yours. You made fun of his work. Now you have posted a true critique. If you had started it that way, it would have been such a nicer post.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Agamemnus on December 20, 2003, 01:19:48 AM
What's the point of a lightsource if she's going to be moving?

3D.

Just add textures and enjoy.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: toonski84 on December 20, 2003, 09:36:37 AM
Because art with lovingly hand-drawn pixels looks so much better than a bunch of crappy polygons.  Can't think of a single Street Fighter EX game people actually *want* to play, and lord, dont get me started on SNK's 3d ventures.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: adosorken on December 20, 2003, 11:08:46 AM
Street Fighter EX +a

gimme. now.

...and not only coz I like Sakura's panties. :P


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 21, 2003, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: "na_th_an"
Quote from: "TheBigBasicQ"
Nathan: Dont you think you are being a bit harsh? The man asked for criticism and thats what he got. Dont always expect everyone to appreciate your work.


There are two kinds of criticism. The worthy and the unworthy. The constructive criticism and the destructive criticism. Constructive criticism: take toonski's post. He told him what he thought that had to be worked on and gave him some useful hints. Destructive criticism: yours. You made fun of his work. Now you have posted a true critique. If you had started it that way, it would have been such a nicer post.


I dunno how you are gonna survive in the real world. There are always people who make fun of your work('like me' (http://basicnetwork.net/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif))


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: na_th_an on December 21, 2003, 11:20:53 AM
I just ignore that kind of people. There are people that are not worth. In fact, they make me laugh. If someone makes fun of the things I do when that person can't do it better (or he or she can't do it at all) I just laugh on his/her face.

Survive in the real world? Where do you think I live? Are you saying that being an ass helps you live in the real world? I think that your point of view is somewhat wrong about that.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 21, 2003, 11:22:51 AM
You didnt ignore me though ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: na_th_an on December 21, 2003, 11:24:22 AM
I just answered your question.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on December 21, 2003, 11:29:45 AM
Forget it. I am in a kinda bad mood. I dont want to start another flame war. I do apologise for being such an 'ass'.


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: adosorken on December 21, 2003, 11:49:21 AM
We all have our bad days. Just a part of being human, tis all :D


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: relsoft on December 23, 2003, 12:10:22 AM
Quote from: "toonski84"
Because art with lovingly hand-drawn pixels looks so much better than a bunch of crappy polygons.  Can't think of a single Street Fighter EX game people actually *want* to play, and lord, dont get me started on SNK's 3d ventures.


Now that's what I want to hear!!!!
 :D  :D


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Neo on December 29, 2003, 09:37:05 AM
Quote from: "relsoft"
Quote from: "toonski84"
Because art with lovingly hand-drawn pixels looks so much better than a bunch of crappy polygons.  Can't think of a single Street Fighter EX game people actually *want* to play, and lord, dont get me started on SNK's 3d ventures.


Now that's what I want to hear!!!!
 :D  :D

I agree with Toonski that Street Fighter's crappy. But I like Mortal Kombat, especially the Trilogy. The new MK4 is 3D but according to me it lacks very much gameplay compared to MKT. ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: na_th_an on December 29, 2003, 12:14:25 PM
Toonski meant Street Fighter EX.

Mortal Kombat has gameplay?  :o


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: adosorken on December 30, 2003, 12:41:17 AM
Quote from: "na_th_an"
Mortal Kombat has gameplay?  :o

 :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o

I have no idea. I thought it sucked.  :x  :barf:

Except the original...it had Goro. Goro owned. Plain and simple. :)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: na_th_an on December 30, 2003, 01:53:40 AM
LOL! But Goro looked like (literally) one of those Masters of the Universe action figures they sold in the mid eighties (I mean the original ones):

(http://usuarios.lycos.es/firstqbasicforum/stuff/CNV00003.jpg)(http://www.arkenyon.com/mk/goro_1.jpg)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: toonski84 on December 30, 2003, 05:57:34 PM
yuck! crappy digitized mortal kombat sprites?

and yet, yeah, I played it.  I liked the fatalities, though I couldnt really pull them off.  But I love Street Fighter 2 *so* much more ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: na_th_an on December 30, 2003, 06:42:54 PM
Yeh, I remember that the catch ten years ago, when it was released, were the digitalized graphics... But in fact those are which make it look SOOOO crappy. I've played this game a little bit, but I really find it anything but playable...


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Neo on January 19, 2004, 11:55:05 AM
Btw, anyone knows where I can find the StreetFighter 2 EX game? Perhaps even in PSX ISO format? Then I could try it out ;)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on January 27, 2004, 04:57:11 PM
I know it's out there for arcade in Emulator format... ISOs are extremely hard to find, at least for us non-kazaaers. :)


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on January 27, 2004, 05:17:55 PM
Yeah, I agree. My ISP blocks kazaa =(


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: Rokkuman on January 27, 2004, 10:04:24 PM
No, not my ISP. I've heard rumors of people going to jail over it, and that's really the last thing I need in my daily routine...


Title: Chun Li. Drawn Cobra style!
Post by: TheBigBasicQ on January 28, 2004, 06:10:13 AM
Yes, but i think it is necessary to curb music piracy. My ISP blocks almost all P2P clients(the illegal ones atleast =P).