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QBasic => QB Discussion & Programming Help => Topic started by: wildcard on August 01, 2007, 07:08:56 PM



Title: QB on Vista?
Post by: wildcard on August 01, 2007, 07:08:56 PM
I've not had a chance to see Vista for myself but does anyone know how it runs, or if it does at all? Excuse my ignorance on the subject but I am curious.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: DrV on August 01, 2007, 09:20:39 PM
In general, text-mode DOS programs than ran on XP will run on Vista, but there's no video mode support due to the video driver model change (AFAIK).


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: Dr_Davenstein on August 02, 2007, 01:53:51 AM
I really can't say I know anything about it yet, but I'd be willing to bet it's dead in the water. The other night, a guy tried running game I made using OpenGL on Vista and his pc went haywire. My point is, if they're having that much trouble with OpenGL, QB must probably be totally borked.  :-\


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: wildcard on August 02, 2007, 04:22:09 AM
I suppose not too suprising for MS, I know they can't always keep compatability but I guess a little more support for old DOS programs would have been nice. I guess its only emulation now or conversion to FB or similar if you want to run old games/programs.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: Dav on August 02, 2007, 11:02:15 AM
Personally, I haven't tried Qbasic under Vista.

I've read conflicting reports about Qbasic+Vista. Some say Qbasic works, but very poorly, and only in SCREEN 0.  Attempting other screen res will kill Qbasic. Also, using some commands (even in SCREEN 0) wont work. Others say Qbasic never runs for them at all (some said that under Win98x as I recall).

Yeah, more DOS compatability would have been nice. (even more compatability with older windows programs would be nice).


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: wildcard on August 02, 2007, 03:06:44 PM
Although I've found XP pretty good overall, preferred in same places to Win98 I think Vista is a much bigger jump in general terms. Although XP isn't great, I've got some games that were written for DirectX than don't even run.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: Dr_Davenstein on August 02, 2007, 06:11:29 PM
Although I've found XP pretty good overall, preferred in same places to Win98 I think Vista is a much bigger jump in general terms. Although XP isn't great, I've got some games that were written for DirectX than don't even run.

That's what I'm talking about right there. That's the kind of thing that really frustrates me. I mean, it's their own proprietary library! I read a few articles about hardware vendors slacking on the driver end though, so maybe things will improve eventually. :-\


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: wildcard on August 02, 2007, 06:37:02 PM
It doesn't make much sense to me, but I know games tend to be some of the most trying programs you run on PCs but still..

They need to be careful how the do these kinds of changes. My company, although not a good example, banned/didn't upgrade to IE7 as it would break out intranet and associated programs and its not that small a company. But as I said bad example  ;)


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: Eponasoft on August 04, 2007, 02:45:38 AM
I have read that a few OEM systems manufacturers have started refusing to sell new PCs with Vista installed, opting for XP instead, despite Microsoft's insistence on pushing Vista.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: BadMrBox on August 04, 2007, 11:51:29 AM
Vista is just a pain in the butt. I'm going to install xp on my comp if I only could find my disc again  :-\


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: relsoft on August 05, 2007, 12:03:05 PM
I really can't say I know anything about it yet, but I'd be willing to bet it's dead in the water. The other night, a guy tried running game I made using OpenGL on Vista and his pc went haywire. My point is, if they're having that much trouble with OpenGL, QB must probably be totally borked.  :-\
[/quote

Eek! No wonder I've only seens one vista machine here in my country. Yep one.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: Mac on August 08, 2007, 02:59:44 PM
You have to install Vista correctly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno

Mac


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: BadMrBox on August 15, 2007, 12:24:46 PM
Clearly the best thing you can do with it yes.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: Deleter on August 15, 2007, 12:40:27 PM
lmao great vid...yeah I'm avoiding vista. Especially since MS says their next OS will be out in 2010. Only reason to upgrade would be dx10, but there are a decent number of games staying away from that anyway...


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: Pete on September 05, 2007, 10:29:07 PM
Someone over at the Network54 / QBasic.com forum posted recently about how they managed to tweak Vista so that it could run QB well.

I'd look for the post, but I'm in a bit of a rush.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: BadMrBox on September 07, 2007, 02:03:34 PM
That's quite impressive really :o
Gotta swing by there and look.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: wildcard on September 11, 2007, 05:11:23 PM
I searched through the forums there a bit and found http://www.network54.com/Forum/13959/message/1189377861/ . I still would like to play with Vista first hand to see what its like.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: jacobb on January 01, 2008, 10:53:18 AM
I just got an hp notebook with vista home premium (32-bit). Compared to XP, it is a bad and slow system with a very few good things. The worse thing was that the graphic qbasic programs I wrote years ago got screwed up.
 t worked beautifully in XP - full screen, all graphic.
In vista, despite not being a 64-bit system, and working in xp compatibility mode I ran into two problems:
1. Small window. (no matter how I play with the vista parameters, the program runs in the smallest possible window. I have not tried to downgrade to 800 by 600 screen because  I dont think this will resolve the issue and also because I am already upset with the way vista randomly moves around desktop icons when I restart the system... but this is another story).
2.  No graphics. - That kills the program.
Those vista guys are really nasty. If xp can run a qbsic program in full screen without having to do any gimmick, why couldnt they make a nice compatibility mode for DOS programs?
Does anyone know I way to fix those two problems? I would appreciate your help.
Thanks, Jacobb


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: jacobb on January 01, 2008, 11:16:06 AM
By the way, I read Pete's suggestion in the mentioned network forum and it really works although with a slight cut off of a slice of the screen because, I believe, of a size distortion. But at least it works.
 He also mentions an wp driver inside the vista which could solve the graphics side of the problem but screws up the aero display feature of vista.
Does anyone know how to get and insert that xp driver and what is the aero display function?
Thanks


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: zoasterboy on April 07, 2008, 01:34:05 PM
I tried it once on a Vista box at school, it hardly worked.

I can get it running fine with DOS Box in Vista and Linux.

In fact it runs better in Linux.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: jacobb on April 07, 2008, 07:25:13 PM
Well, DOS box didn't work for me. Maybe there is an incompatibility with the HP notebook.
The Hp comes with vista -32 and does not run well. For instance, to use an HP scanner, I have to switch off the screen tablet. Isn't that funny?  A new HP notebook has a bug when running an HP new scanner!
So its possible that DOS box was lost between Vista and HP.
The solution will be an XP partition.
I was told the new sp1 vista was coming with a fast way to set up an xp partition!  It did not. I still will have to go through all those crazy steps, saving files, etc, in order to open up an XP partition. I wanted something quick and clean.
 


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: zoasterboy on April 07, 2008, 07:58:57 PM
I would recommend (if you have space) giving Ubuntu a try also, at ubuntu.com

Far better than WIndows, but takes some getting used to. Some things are a little less user friendly, but overall a better OS.

Just install Ubuntu after the Windows OS's and it will set up a boot manager.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: Mac on April 08, 2008, 03:03:24 AM
I'd look for the post, but I'm in a bit of a rush.

I looked. Maybe this was it
http://www.network54.com/Forum/13959/message/1206296102/



Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: jacobb on April 08, 2008, 10:11:33 AM
I had a couple of weeks ago downloaded  ubuntu 7.1 desktop i386.
Can I use it in a notebook too, or there is another version?
Anyway, it came as an iso file.
I confess I don't  have the slightest idea on how to install a program from an iso file, neither on vista (my notebook) nor on xp (my desktop).


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: zoasterboy on April 08, 2008, 01:39:04 PM
Yes it will work on your notebook as long as it meets the minimum specs. As it runs Vista, it will be well beyond the minimum. My personal recommendation is:

500Mhz Processor
256Mb RAM
6 Gigs HD space

Wait until the new version of Ubuntu comes out in 16 days. They have a new installer that you can download and run straight from Windows.

I have no idea how the Windows based installer works, but I'm sure the people on the Ubuntu forums could help you with that if you have any trouble.

As for installing via an ISO, basically an ISO is an image of a CD. The Ubuntu CD is a bootable CD, and to get it on a CD you need an ISO burner. Most modern CD burning software has the ability to burn ISO files. (Just make sure it is actually unpacking the image and not just copying the single image file).

If you don't have an ISO burner, check Google:

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=iso+burner

Once it's on the CD, reboot with the CD in the CDROM, and the Ubuntu "Live CD" will start. (Make sure your BIOS is set to boot to CD before the Hard Drive)

The Live CD boots a simple version of Ubuntu that runs purely from the CD. There is an installer icon on the desktop.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: gummo on May 27, 2008, 01:40:37 AM
I just got my first new computer in years and since I've been using Vista (November '07) I haven't had any serious problems. Everything has work very smoothly, which is why all this backlash confuses me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanboy, I'm just a big Operating System nerd, which is probably why I do alot of my writing on OS/2 Warp 4 in a virtual machine under Vista. As for OpenGL problems, I haven't encountered any under Vista. Some of my enthusiasm might lie in the fact that I haven't owned a new machine in almost a decade and am in plain old love w/ being able to use current software. I love me some Direct X 10.
-s.davis


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: zoasterboy on May 27, 2008, 01:59:00 PM
Quote
I just got my first new computer in years and since I've been using Vista (November '07) I haven't had any serious problems. Everything has work very smoothly, which is why all this backlash confuses me.

I can understand where you're coming from. I recently purchased a new laptop. After moving from 600MHZ and 128MB of RAM, to 2GHZ and 2GB of RAM, It seemed like my new computer could handle anything. It came pre loaded with Vista, and I used it for a while to test it out. At first glance, Vista seems like a well put together OS. Simple interface, good looking effects, what's the big deal about Vista? The problems are under the surface. It's a bloated OS, only dominant due to monopolistic practices on the part of Microsoft.

First the bloat. When I first booted my laptop, 10 gigs were already used by Vista. Not so bad when it's a 120 gig HD, but compared to Ubuntu's low 2 gigs? Quite the difference.

On first boot, RAM usage was at a constant 30%, moving up with every new app I opened. With Ubuntu running, only 10% of RAM was used, which moved to 15% after I enabled screenlets, (similar to gadgets or widgets), and advanced desktop effects allowing effects as seen in this video: http://www.broadcastyoutube.com/watch?v=PAgul9Yci_0 )

Ubuntu's effects use far less resources while being far more advanced and seamless, at 100% less cost. You can have multiple virtual desktops, which can be rotated on a virtual cube, along with other effects shown in the video. Vista can flip through open windows in 3D? So can Ubuntu. But you can choose from multiple styles. And on and on, I'm just kind of rambling, but you get the picture.

The strange thing is, Ubuntu is free, while Vista costs over $100. This shows that Microsoft is not about making Vista a good OS, they are, as always, about forcing their OS on every computer in the world. The fact that an open source community can make software better than a monolithic company shows how horrible of an OS Vista has become, Users are disillusioned that there is nothing really wrong with Vista, simply because they are comparing it to older versions of Windows and that other OS, what's it called... Mac OS? Mac OS X is based on an open source version of Unix known as BSD. They changed it's name to "Darwin" and call it an alternative.

The everyday users likes Windows because he/she knows nothing else, and other operating systems are "confusing", simply because they have never used anything but Windows.

Bill Gates publicly stated that open source "does not allow people to improve the software."

He's not about better software, he's about dominance.

He may be "stepping down" from his chair as CEO to go help others (aka give away 1% of his total salary and take some pictures next to starving children for the press) But he will be losing power over Microsoft about as much as Putin is losing power over Russia now that he's not the Prime Minister, and his hand picked successor takes over.

A good example of Microsoft's real intentions can be shown in the browser wars of the 90's. Netscape was the dominant browser, until MS threatened to shut down companies that prepackaged computers with it. I could go on with more examples, but I feel like I'm rambling.

Sorry, just kind of channeling my recent girl problems into this lengthy post... YOU TOLD ME YOU WANTED ME TO DATE OTHER PEOPLE! AHH! WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY!


I'll make a nicer post that details why MS/Vista is so messed up later when I have the time.

:D


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: LPG on May 28, 2008, 02:54:56 AM
if you want a vista-like os install xp ;D, and download the vista theme thing

i don't know where to get it but my friend has it. it looks good and it runs fast.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: Demon Red Storm on June 13, 2008, 02:53:52 PM
Vista itself is fine. It's built to run with heavier graphics, but the tradeoff is no good DOS at all. I do think they gave Vista horrible focus on ease-to-learn/use rather than functionality, but the graphics are much better and sharper than most other operating systems on the market. As a gamer, this really matters.

The problem here is, indeed, a driver issue. You can, for the most part, use DOSBOX to resolve this issue (my preference), or use a different os, but the driver is the issue. By default, the driver is a newer type that does not allow 16-bit DOS programs to work. This is how to find and change this:
*Note: as far as I know of, the resolution max is limited to 800x600, and your adapter must be able to use VGA, not      the new system*

1. Go to the control panel home.
2. Click hardware and sound.
3. Open device manager.
4. Click open the display adapters list, and view the properties of the first one.
5. In the properties dialog box, go to the "driver" tab.
6. Click update driver, then browse on my computer, then let me pick from a list.
7. After a few seconds, a short list should come up. Pick the "Standard VGA Graphics Adapter", and continue.
8. You're done. If you wish to return to the original settings, just redo the process, but pick the other adapter instead.
-Alternatively, you could set a system restore point. That will undo your changes a little faster, but I have had problems with files when doing this.


Title: Re: QB on Vista?
Post by: GordonSweet on August 05, 2008, 11:41:24 AM
I cannot even get any QB graphic SCREENS 2+ to work on my Flat Screen with Win XP. Likewise most old DOS programs. So I have to resort to using Doscopy. FB works OK.